Hedges on Trump

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  • #64887
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    We need more people to use that word.

    It’s frustrating that the media won’t…belligerently won’t use “Fascist”…

    I don’t understand why not…fascism must inherently attack both corporatism and religion as it ascends because under fascism, the state must not only be primary, but unitary. All must be in service to the state ultimately.

    Trump’s attacks on both the judiciary and the media are textbook fascism.

    And considering that the media is both media and corporate, two things that fascists MUST destroy quickly… they’d better get on it before it’s too late.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    #64895
    Billy_T
    Participant

    We need more people to use that word.

    It’s frustrating that the media won’t…belligerently won’t use “Fascist”…

    I don’t understand why not…fascism must inherently attack both corporatism and religion as it ascends because under fascism, the state must not only be primary, but unitary. All must be in service to the state ultimately.

    Trump’s attacks on both the judiciary and the media are textbook fascism.

    And considering that the media is both media and corporate, two things that fascists MUST destroy quickly… they’d better get on it before it’s too late.

    Mac,

    I’ve never seen that definition for fascism. Under Hitler, for example, German corporations thrived — at least until the war took a turn. As did religion. He in no way ever tried to destroy them. Nor did Mussolini. In fact, one definition for fascism is when corporations take over and become “the state.” “Corporatism” is also often said to be the original model for fascism, and the Roman Catholic Church in Italy was a proponent. Mussolini did back flips to woo the Church, etc.

    #64902
    wv
    Participant

    Wikipedia makes it clear that ‘fascism’ is not easy to define. There’s no agreed-upon definition.
    w
    v

    “...What constitutes a definition of fascism and fascist governments is a highly disputed subject that has proved complicated and contentious. Historians, political scientists, and other scholars have engaged in long and furious debates concerning the exact nature of fascism and its core tenets.

    A significant number of scholars agree that a “fascist regime” is foremost an authoritarian form of government, although not all authoritarian regimes are fascist. Authoritarianism is thus a defining characteristic, but most scholars will say that more distinguishing traits are needed to make an authoritarian regime fascist.[1]

    Similarly, fascism as an ideology is also hard to define. Originally, “fascism” referred to a political movement that was linked with corporatism and existed in Italy from 1922 to 1943 under the leadership of Benito Mussolini. Many scholars use the word “fascism” without capitalization in a more general sense, to refer to an ideology (or group of ideologies) that was influential in many countries at many different times. For this purpose, they have sought to identify what Griffin calls a “fascist minimum”—that is, the minimum conditions that a certain political movement must meet in order to be considered “fascist”.[2]

    Several scholars have inspected the apocalyptic, millennial and millenarian aspects of fascism.[3][4][5][6][7][8][9] According to most scholars of fascism, there are both left and right influences on fascism as a social movement, and fascism, especially once in power, has historically attacked communism, conservatism and liberalism, attracting support primarily from what in a classical sense is called the “far left” or “extreme left”.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism

    #64907
    Billy_T
    Participant

    According to most scholars of fascism, there are both left and right influences on fascism as a social movement, and fascism, especially once in power, has historically attacked communism, conservatism and liberalism, attracting support primarily from what in a classical sense is called the “far left” or “extreme left”.

    This is one of the reasons why wikipedia has to be read with more than a grain of salt. Cuz political definitions are all too often highly politicized themselves, disputed by angry readers, etc. etc.

    It was universally accepted for decades that “fascism” was right-wing. No one disputed this from the 1920s through the 1940s, when fascism actually existed (without hedging), and virtually no one disputed this for the next several decades after the end of WWII. It’s only been in the last couple that the political right has forced revisionism down the throats of people who write about these things.

    Fascist parties themselves identified as right-wing back then. Mussolini, Franco and Hitler did. And all neo-fascist parties do today. I marvel at the way in which right-wing whining and playing the refs has worked so well to distort the past.

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