Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Rams Huddle › Grading the Rams' 3 trades + NFL execs (via Sando) eval the Ramsey trade
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October 16, 2019 at 1:15 pm #106788AgamemnonParticipant
Grading the Rams' 3 trades involving Ramsey, Peters and Corbett
Les Snead and Sean McVay looked at their team after losing three games in a row and saw a need to get better. They clearly didn’t believe the Los Angeles Rams could compete as currently structured, so they made not one trade, not two, but three deals in a span of a few hours.
First, they acquired center Austin Corbett from the Browns. Then came the trade sending Marcus Peters to the Ravens. The cherry on top was a move to bring in Jalen Ramsey for a haul of three draft picks – including two first-rounders.
The secondary looks vastly different now with Peters gone and Aqib Talib injured, with Ramsey stepping in as the No. 1 cornerback. But were these trades necessary, and were they good moves for the Rams?
Let’s take a look at each one and hand out grades for all three.
CB Jalen Ramsey
Jaguars receive2020 first-round pick
2021 first-round pick
2021 fourth-round pickThis was a complete stunner, but after the Rams moved Peters, it was a move that some predicted might happen. Los Angeles clearly needed a cornerback after losing Aqib Talib to IR and parting ways with Peters, and there wasn’t a better one available than Ramsey. Heck, there may not be a better one in the NFL than him.
It’s yet another superstar joining the Rams, bolstering a defense that’s been struggling. He’s a true lockdown corner with the swagger and confidence to match, which fits perfectly with what the Rams do on defense. He’ll immediately make the defense better and be an upgrade over both Peters and Talib, but there’s still plenty of risk that comes with this.
The Rams gave up two first-rounders and a fourth for a player who’s only under contract through 2020. If they don’t sign him to an extension soon or at least before his deal expires, it’s going to be a huge mistake. Ramsey will want to be the highest-paid cornerback, and rightfully so, and he’s made it clear in the past that he wants to break the bank.
The Rams have a history of letting defensive backs walk, but this is an instance where they must sign him long term. It’s an aggressive move, but the team can limit the risk by extending Ramsey.
Grade: B-
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Rams receive
LB Kenny Young
2020 fifth-round pick
Ravens receiveCB Marcus Peters
This move didn’t make a ton of sense, to be honest. Peters was playing far better this season than he was a year ago and had an overall PFF grade of 76.6 before this trade, which ranked among the 10 best in the NFL. He didn’t turn out to be the shutdown cornerback the Rams hoped he’d be when they acquired him last year, but he was still a quality starter this year.
Trading him for a linebacker who was recently benched and a fourth-round pick seems short-sighted. Yes, he was set to be a free agent after this season – that played a big part in this deal – but even if the Rams kept him for the remainder of the year and let him walk, he would’ve netted them at least a third- or fourth-round compensatory pick in 2021. The point of the deal was clearly to free up enough cap space to land Ramsey.
Still, moving Peters for someone who may not make much of an impact this season is questionable. Young has the athleticism to play in the NFL, but as a former fourth-round pick, it’s not as if he was highly coveted coming out of UCLA. Linebacker depth in Los Angeles was thin, so at least Young adds to that, but he has to improve if he wants to start next to Cory Littleton.
This trade will become a win if Young steps up and starts at linebacker – especially if Littleton leaves in free agency – but if not, it’s questionable deal for Los Angeles.
Grade: C
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Rams receive
C Austin Corbett
Browns receive2021 fifth-round pick
The Rams needed offensive line help and they got it with Corbett – a former second-round pick in 2018. A change of scenery is exactly what Corbett needed as he struggled to get on the field in Cleveland. He’ll come in and compete with Brian Allen at center almost immediately, and it wouldn’t be a surprise to see him take Allen’s job relatively soon.
There’s very little risk involved with this trade, given the low price of a fifth-round pick. It’s also a move that at the very least gives the Rams some much-needed depth on the offensive line. Corbett is a quality backup to have on the roster and given his draft pedigree, he has the potential to be a good starter, too.
There are no complaints with this move, given how hard it is to hit on fifth-round picks. It’s almost always better to trade them for players with NFL experience who simply don’t fit with their current teams.
Grade: A
October 16, 2019 at 1:33 pm #106791AgamemnonParticipantOctober 16, 2019 at 6:21 pm #106800znModeratorOctober 16, 2019 at 6:22 pm #106801znModeratorOctober 16, 2019 at 8:32 pm #106816wvParticipantMangini dont like it
October 16, 2019 at 8:44 pm #106817znModeratorOctober 16, 2019 at 9:45 pm #106822znModeratorPanic move? Brilliant gambit? Neither? NFL execs weigh in on the Rams’ Jalen Ramsey trade
Mike Sando
https://theathletic.com/1298733/2019/10/16/jalen-ramsey-trade-rams-jaguars-nfl-execs/
The Los Angeles Rams could have conceded that their Super Bowl window had closed enough to justify turning their attention to restocking their team with young depth. How fun would that have been? Instead, they doubled down in spectacular fashion by sending two first-round picks and a fourth-rounder to the Jacksonville Jaguars for aggrieved cornerback Jalen Ramsey.
Was it a panic move? A brilliant gambit? Both? Neither?
“I’m more interested in how it’s going to work and for how long,” an NFL team exec said, “because sitting there and saying he’s a No. 1 corner and they can play more man coverage and put an ‘x’ over the No. 1 receiver, everyone knows that.”
NFL insiders offered a range of opinions and insights on the deal as the league buzzed over the trade Tuesday night. We’ll unpack the six most compelling takes here.
Take No. 1: The Rams’ trust in Wade Phillips is captivating
Marcus Peters and Aqib Talib were first. Now, Ramsey. All three corners clashed with previous teams at various points for various reasons. The Rams delivered every one of them to defensive coordinator Wade Phillips, who seems uniquely suited for handling players who have not fit as well in other places.
“Everyone can afford to trade those picks (for Ramsey), and no one else does,” a personnel director said. “These guys (the Rams) have an affinity for the super-high-end corner with a super-high-end set of luggage. This guy’s got Samsonites, Tumis, he’s got it all. He’s the guy who talks in GQ Magazine in the offseason and tells you who the good quarterbacks are and he’s been in the league for 15 minutes.”
It’s actually three-plus seasons and two Pro Bowls for Ramsey at this point. There has been no shortage of Ramsey headlines since Jacksonville picked him fifth overall in the 2016 draft.
Beyond criticizing quarterbacks, Ramsey has clashed with officials, reporters, opposing players, his head coach and the front office. He once suggested a “homer” field judge was “kin” of Houston Texans receiver DeAndre Hopkins. Another time, Ramsey threatened “war” on reporters and was suspended by the team for a week as a result. Ramsey has called tight end Rob Gronkoswki overrated. He was once ejected along with Cincinnati Bengals receiver A.J. Green for an in-game fight. This season, a sideline confrontation with Jaguars coach Doug Marrone made waves. Ramsey later indicated the Jaguars’ front office, headed by Tom Coughlin, had disrespected him during a meeting.
In other words, nothing the 72-year-old Phillips hasn’t seen in his four decades of NFL coaching.
“The Rams are probably thinking, ‘We have a decent offense, a young head coach, we are going to have this nucleus of players together for a while,’” the personnel director said. “They like to leverage Wade, who creates a melting pot over there. He did it in Denver, where he just takes a big blend of veterans and gets those guys to play together.”
In most cases, the Broncos and Rams had easy escape routes if they wanted to terminate relationships with players perceived as carrying elevated risks. This time, Phillips’ team traded away two first-round picks and a fourth-rounder. The Rams are all-in on Ramsey. They were not all-in on veteran rentals such as Peters (whom they traded to Baltimore in exchange for second-year linebacker Kenny Young and a 2020 fifth-round pick), Ndamukong Suh, Talib, etc.
“Wade is good when he has the good players, just like everybody, but mixing together all the veterans, that takes a special skill,” the director said. “Other guys can’t do that.”
Take No. 2: Problem is, the Rams are not a corner away
Most would agree that the Rams are better after trading Peters to Baltimore earlier Tuesday and then adding Ramsey from the Jaguars.
“Taking away half the field is a good way of beating anybody,” an exec said, “but the teams they have to beat in their division (Seattle and San Francisco) want to run the ball. And when your opponents are built to run the ball, I don’t know that trading two first-round picks for a corner is the right move.”
OK, but collecting great draft picks is easier than collecting great players. Also, veterans are easier to prepare for prominent roles than rookies in this era of fewer practices. Because few appealing veterans reach free agency, trades can provide a valuable alternative.
“The Rams are not a corner short,” this exec replied. “Teams are not throwing the ball all over the yard on them, by and large. They have a depth problem. Why do they have a depth problem? They trade away their picks.”
The Rams did not select in the first rounds of the 2017, 2018 or 2019 drafts, instead using those picks primarily for acquiring quarterback Jared Goff in 2016 and receiver Brandin Cooks via trade with the Patriots in 2018. They traded back from the 31st overall slot in the most recent draft, but still managed to select four players over the first three rounds, an effort to address depth. They rank among the NFL’s top 10 in home-grown draft choices under contract.
Can they restock their offensive line and other areas after trading away premium picks?
Take No. 3: Is this a panic move by the Rams?
The Rams paid running back Todd Gurley at the top of the market when they did not have to do so. They were also aggressive in paying Goff. Neither player is performing to that level at this point. Will they in the future? Most think Ramsey is a slam dunk from a performance standpoint, but the Rams didn’t just trade for him. They paid the highest price, straight up, that any team has paid for a corner in a long time, maybe ever.
“I think it was a panic move that falls in line with some of the out-of-the-box moves they have made in the past, starting with doing Gurley two years early and resetting the market, and then continuing with $33.5 million for Goff,” an exec said. “If this was done two weeks ago when they were 3-1, it would have made more sense, because I think there would have been more confidence in, they will get it together, they will be in the playoffs, their picks are going to be in the late 20s.”
This exec also noted that Ramsey’s agent is in “no hurry” to get a deal done. The price could be $18 million a year or more when the time comes.
“What if all of a sudden he decides he wants $22-23 million and you are in camp next year and he doesn’t show up?” the exec said. “Even if you are willing to pay, you need to get that taken care of so you know you’ve got this guy. Right now, the Rams and Bears do not fear Aaron Donald and Khalil Mack holding out. You can’t say that about Ramsey.”
This exec thought any objective analysis would concede that San Francisco and Seattle appear likely to reach the playoffs, which could leave the Rams competing with five or six relatively strong NFC teams for a wild-card spot.
“They are looking at their team with glass half full, with some slightly rose-colored glasses, with regard to Goff and the offense, and thinking that they are going to end up winning the division when they have already lost to San Francisco and Seattle,” this exec said. “They were not realistic, in my opinion, about the uncertainty relating to Goff. Sean McVay is still a great coach, but for whatever reason, that offense is not nearly the same as the high-flying one it has been the last two years. Ramsey doesn’t change that.”
Take No. 4: The Ramsey trade differs from the Khalil Mack trade in important ways
Acquiring Mack from Oakland was relatively safe and straightforward for the Bears. They had a long-term contract worked out, and Mack had earned a reputation as an excellent teammate. Ramsey does not check those boxes as neatly, if at all.
“I want to see them get the contract done before we say too much, because I don’t know if this kid is going to be happy unless you make him the highest-paid corner,” an evaluator said. “You could have another headache coming up. Two, I don’t mind trading away a couple firsts if you feel like your picks are going to be late and you get a superstar. The scary part of this trade is, you don’t always hear the best stuff about Ramsey as a teammate.”
This evaluator thought the Mack trade worked out well for both the Raiders and Bears. Oakland got to rebuild under a new coach armed with long-term security. Chicago got an elite player in his prime as the Bears sought to win right away.
Ramsey’s contract situation bears watching. A fifth-year option for 2020 and up to three years of franchise tags could give the Rams longer-term control, depending on what happens with the next collective bargaining agreement, but there is a risk in giving up high draft choices for a player without a long-term deal. Top corners currently earn $15 million a year. Ramsey could have the leverage to push for much more.
“That is not necessarily the smartest move when you are trading first-round picks,” the evaluator said, “but when you are trying to win a Super Bowl, sometimes you have to compromise the values.”
Take No. 5: The Jaguars should come out OK, with a caveat
The Jaguars and Ramsey ideally would have entered into a long-term contract and lived happily ever after. That wasn’t going to happen. Jacksonville could have done worse than getting two first-round picks and a fourth-rounder in return for player who had, by all appearances, checked out mentally and emotionally.
“Jacksonville is going to make out pretty good on this thing as far as the picks go, assuming the Rams do not win a bunch of games, which I assume they will not do,” an exec said, “but Jacksonville is going to have a culture problem going forward. Any player who wants out of there can get out of there. It won’t be hard.”
Adding the two first-round picks gives the Jaguars options as they continue to evaluate quarterbacks Gardner Minshew and Nick Foles.
“I’d trade Ramsey for two ones and a four if he didn’t want to be there, wouldn’t you?” another exec said. “You might have a quarterback you like, which is important. You are starting to make progress. Four ones in the next two years, that’s pretty sweet. If you wind up really liking the kid (Minshew), maybe you trade Foles next year.”
Take No. 6: Ramsey is a great talent, but is he a great corner?
There have been Ramsey skeptics over the years. A general manager consulted before the 2016 draft said he thought Ramsey’s combine workout was more impressive than his actual cornerback play. Another GM consulted at that time questioned whether Ramsey took away the ball frequently enough to merit a top-five selection (Ramsey has 10 interceptions in 54 NFL games, counting playoffs).
A majority of evaluators consulted in recent months thought Ramsey was the NFL’s top corner, with Stephon Gilmore and Marshon Lattimore also receiving mention. But an evaluator who rated Ramsey as the NFL’s best corner two years ago called the Rams’ acquisition of him a mistake at the price required to get the deal done.
“He can only play press or man,” this evaluator said. “Any type of combo coverage or zone, he seems to struggle with the concepts. Deion Sanders, he did not tackle, he made business decisions, but he knew coverages and how to play corner. This kid (Ramsey) is extremely talented but doesn’t know how to play corner in that way.”
Even so, a GM consulted last week called Ramsey “the best corner in the league when he is on and playing.” A longtime exec thought the New England Patriots’ signing of Gilmore two years ago showed the value an elite corner offers when used correctly.
Nineteen months have passed since the Rams acquired Peters and a sixth-round pick from Kansas City for second- and fourth-round choices. Peters, a veteran of 74 regular-season and playoff games, was known for a ball-hawking style predicated on off-coverage. He intercepted 14 passes in his first 25 games, eight in his next 25 games and four over his 24 most recent games. Those diminishing returns could have precipitated his departure Tuesday.
The Rams are now betting they can get much more from a different kind of corner in Ramsey. This time, the stakes are much higher.
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