Goff & Air Raid qbs in the NFL

This topic has 10 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 8 years ago by zn.

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October 31, 2016 at 2:20 pm #56433

zn
Moderator

off the net from Deadpool

if Goff’s frustrated at not starting then maybe he should have went to a College with a real offense and not that vaunted Bear Raid.

It boggles my mind, how everyone just thinks he should be able to walk onto a football field and win the starting QB job, when he has NEVER done the following:

Call a play in a huddle
Take a snap from under center
completely change a play at the LoS
dropback and throw (alot of that is getting the timing down)

in fact the playbook, if I remember my Air Raid offenses is a progression based read offense with 10 passing concepts, 5 screen concepts and a handful of run concepts. Its a real simple offense once you understand 20 or so concepts.

And Im not making fun of Cal, but he has a learning curve. It is dangerously steep.

Things he has done:
Somewhat read a defense. he did have a few options every play at Cal.
Made progressions.

But all that said, Air Raid QBs have failed at the NFL level, so he does have work to do. Of course, I said he wouldn’t start before week 12. So maybe I have blinders on.

And as much as I hate to say this, if went to USC, he is starting right now.

A list of Air Raid QBs (warning, it is graphic in nature):

Tim Couch
Brandon Weeden
Johnny Manziel
Kevin Kolb
Geno Smith
John Beck
Nick Foles
Josh Heupel
Kliff Kingsbury
B.J. Symons
Case Keenum
Dominique Davis
Graham Harrell
Jared Lorenzen
Jason White
Max Hall
Nate Hybl
Sonny Cumbie
Taylor Potts

October 31, 2016 at 3:51 pm #56443

wv
Participant

Yes, and Snisher knew all that — which tells us one of two things, perhaps:

1) Either they are idiots,
or
2) Goff’s skill set is so awesome, they traded up and took him (over Wentz, Dak, etc)
despite his steep learning curve.

w
v

October 31, 2016 at 6:33 pm #56455

Zooey
Moderator

wv wrote:

Yes, and Snisher knew all that — which tells us one of two things, perhaps:

1) Either they are idiots,
or
2) Goff’s skill set is so awesome, they traded up and took him (over Wentz, Dak, etc)
despite his steep learning curve.

w
v

I agree with this, and think it is #2, AND that they underestimated how long it would take to get him up to speed, AND that having recognized that, they decided that the right thing to do was to train him up until he actually is ready rather than force him in prematurely.

The other comment I have to make on this is that I knew the above (well, not the # of concepts, or the list of names) before the draft. And I’m not Joe Football. I guess I’m more than a casual fan, but I am not in the class of people who are students of the game, who have experience, who explain things to others rather than read other people’s explanations. And I knew all that based on pretty skimpy reading around. So why don’t people whose f***ing job it is to talk about football know that? That is what I don’t understand. I mean, if somebody is going to pay me $70,000 a year to talk about football 3-15 hours a week, I’m going to know as much about it as the Zooeys of the world. I really don’t understand how so many people know so little, and say such really tremendously stupid things about Goff vis-a-vis Wentz and Dak and whoever.

October 31, 2016 at 6:44 pm #56458

InvaderRam
Moderator

who knows. he might be ready now. he definitely wasn’t ready week 1. but he might be ready now.

i also think this is a case of his skill set being so good that they were willing to be patient even though wentz was the more productive ready qb or maybe they underestimated the fact that he came from a pro style offense.

and maybe this is also just a case of fisher’s philosophy being that he is going to bring them along slowly. i think he has a history of doing that in general.

in any case… start him already…

hehe.

November 1, 2016 at 9:07 am #56476

— X —
Participant

InvaderRam wrote:

I really don’t understand how so many people know so little, and say such really tremendously stupid things about Goff vis-a-vis Wentz and Dak and whoever.

Because clicks =

You have to be odd, to be number one.
-- Dr Seuss

November 1, 2016 at 9:38 am #56479

PA Ram
Participant

But here is another sobering thought:

Are the Rams the right organization to develop a player like Goff?

They don’t have the best track record with QBs. Other than McNair…who has Fisher developed in his 21 years of head coaching experience?

So…why not just take Wentz? Make it easier on everyone?

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

November 1, 2016 at 9:59 am #56481

zn
Moderator

PA Ram wrote:

But here is another sobering thought:

Are the Rams the right organization to develop a player like Goff?

They don’t have the best track record with QBs. Other than McNair…who has Fisher developed in his 21 years of head coaching experience?

So…why not just take Wentz? Make it easier on everyone?

Yes Fisher has done well with qbs. It’s a myth that he hasn’t. In fact PA it’s a BS myth.

It’s not just McNair. Collins had his best years under Fisher. Young was the owner’s pick and forced on Fisher. Bradford also did well under Fisher WHEN the OL was not an injured wreck. (Ironically Bradford faces the same issue now with the Vikes.)

Foles melted down. Shrug. Happens. I think it’s because he had not adjusted to playing pro style after being in the spread in college and with Kelly. Same reason they’re taking their time with Goff.

They took Goff because he is better at what they are looking for in a qb. They were also not worried about not starting him. Most rookie qbs who start do not win. But then most teams picking high in the draft and starting a rookie qb are rebuilding and can afford to not play in “win now” mode.

November 1, 2016 at 10:37 am #56485

PA Ram
Participant

Eh. I’m not so sure I’m impressed with your list, zn.

After 5 other teams, Collins ended up with the Titans and had one good season. He was replaced the following year. So I’m not sure why you think Collins had his best years under Fisher. While Bradford may have had his best year under Fisher, he never had a GREAT year–which is what you want from a #1 pick.

Foles melted down. It happens. It happened under Fisher.

Fisher has not(besides McNair) impressed me with QBs. So I stand by my point. Fisher does not have a great history with QBs–especially with no running game.

I will say I like what Keenum is doing with his limited ability. And I thought Mannion looked better in pre-season.

But we’re talking about the #1 pick in the draft. He has to be a top tier guy. He has to be. You don’t draft a “game manager” at #1. If you give up all those picks you do it for greatness.

I hope you’re right. I hope that Goff is all of that. He has to be because if they missed on him they will suffer for years.

I hope you’re right.

But I just look at Fisher and his history and think it would have been wiser to take the most pro-ready guy. No one disputed that was Wentz.

But I get it–the Rams are playing the long game. If Goff becomes Montana I can sit down and shut up and smile. And breathe s sigh of relief. And laugh at how silly my post was when I questioned the pick. And I’ll love every minute of it.

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

November 1, 2016 at 7:50 pm #56592

InvaderRam
Moderator

PA Ram wrote:

Eh. I’m not so sure I’m impressed with your list, zn.

After 5 other teams, Collins ended up with the Titans and had one good season. He was replaced the following year. So I’m not sure why you think Collins had his best years under Fisher. While Bradford may have had his best year under Fisher, he never had a GREAT year–which is what you want from a #1 pick.

Foles melted down. It happens. It happened under Fisher.

Fisher has not(besides McNair) impressed me with QBs. So I stand by my point. Fisher does not have a great history with QBs–especially with no running game.

I will say I like what Keenum is doing with his limited ability. And I thought Mannion looked better in pre-season.

But we’re talking about the #1 pick in the draft. He has to be a top tier guy. He has to be. You don’t draft a “game manager” at #1. If you give up all those picks you do it for greatness.

I hope you’re right. I hope that Goff is all of that. He has to be because if they missed on him they will suffer for years.

I hope you’re right.

But I just look at Fisher and his history and think it would have been wiser to take the most pro-ready guy. No one disputed that was Wentz.

But I get it–the Rams are playing the long game. If Goff becomes Montana I can sit down and shut up and smile. And breathe s sigh of relief. And laugh at how silly my post was when I questioned the pick. And I’ll love every minute of it.

you make very good points.

not that i think fisher is necessarily bad for goff.

but is he the best?

November 1, 2016 at 8:14 pm #56595

sanbagger
Participant

InvaderRam wrote:

you make very good points.

not that i think fisher is necessarily bad for goff.

but is he the best?

Fish won’t really be hands on with the development of Goff that’s gonna be on Weinke and Groh. I’m liking the addition of Groh to this offense and think if given the time, in other words…they don’t get fired, I think this O is going the right direction.

I’m not sold on Boras as a play caller yet. I still see some bone head calls and I have noticed he is getting away from the ground game. I’m sure Fish will get on him and we will see a concerted effort to run the ball against Carolina.

November 2, 2016 at 2:33 am #56619

zn
Moderator

PA Ram wrote:

Eh. I’m not so sure I’m impressed with your list, zn.

After 5 other teams, Collins ended up with the Titans and had one good season. He was replaced the following year. So I’m not sure why you think Collins had his best years under Fisher. While Bradford may have had his best year under Fisher, he never had a GREAT year–which is what you want from a #1 pick.

Foles melted down. It happens. It happened under Fisher.

Fisher has not(besides McNair) impressed me with QBs. So I stand by my point. Fisher does not have a great history with QBs–especially with no running game.

I will say I like what Keenum is doing with his limited ability. And I thought Mannion looked better in pre-season.

But we’re talking about the #1 pick in the draft. He has to be a top tier guy. He has to be. You don’t draft a “game manager” at #1. If you give up all those picks you do it for greatness.

I hope you’re right. I hope that Goff is all of that. He has to be because if they missed on him they will suffer for years.

I hope you’re right.

But I just look at Fisher and his history and think it would have been wiser to take the most pro-ready guy. No one disputed that was Wentz.

But I get it–the Rams are playing the long game. If Goff becomes Montana I can sit down and shut up and smile. And breathe s sigh of relief. And laugh at how silly my post was when I questioned the pick. And I’ll love every minute of it.

Well you;re not impressed with the list because there’s no Brady, Warner, or Rodgers on it. But that’s just the luck of the draw. Frankly BB is lucky to find Brady.

Nevertheless, McNair played well.

Collins’s best season was with the Titans. He was a pro bowl qb in 2008.

Bradford played well for the Rams in 2012-13 when he didn’t have a banged up OL (a problem that has re-surfaced in Minn). Doesn’t matter where Bradford was picked–he was never going to be elite, I always said he was in the Flacco/Eli class.

And Foles crashed. I put that on Foles.

The rest were either Vince Young or #2 types, with Keenum being the best of that lot.

None of that gives me pause in terms of a coach developing a qb. I instead assume that Goff is a good pick and will do well.

So we just differ.

Which is fine. We could use a good board war around here.
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