Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Public House › Gaining steam- States Rights
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InvaderRam.
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July 3, 2015 at 5:54 pm #26955
bnwBlockedWhat’s past is prologue. Report below.
Support Grows for States to Ignore the Federal Courts
Friday, July 03, 2015
Following last week’s controversial U.S. Supreme Court rulings on Obamacare and gay marriage, voters believe more strongly that individual states should have the right to turn their backs on the federal courts.
A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 33% of Likely U.S. Voters now believe that states should have the right to ignore federal court rulings if their elected officials agree with them. That’s up nine points from 24% when we first asked this question in February. Just over half (52%) disagree, down from 58% in the earlier survey. Fifteen percent (15%) are undecided. (To see survey question wording, click here.)
Perhaps even more disturbing is that the voters who feel strongest about overriding the federal courts – Republicans and conservatives – are those who traditionally have been the most supportive of the Constitution and separation of powers. During the Obama years, however, these voters have become increasingly suspicious and even hostile toward the federal government.
Fifty percent (50%) of GOP voters now believe states should have the right to ignore federal court rulings, compared to just 22% of Democrats and 30% of voters not affiliated with either major party. Interestingly, this represents a noticeable rise in support among all three groups.
Fifty percent (50%) of conservative voters share this view, but just 27% of moderates and 15% of liberals agree.
Voters are closely divided in their opinions of both of last week’s major rulings. Negative views of the Supreme Court are at their highest level in nearly nine years of regular surveying. Positive opinions are also up to a less dramatic three-year high.
The survey of 1,000 Likely Voters was conducted on June 30-July 1, 2015 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. Field work for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse Opinion Research, LLC. See methodology.
Earlier this year, 26% of voters told Rasmussen Reports that President Obama should have the right to ignore federal court rulings if they are standing in the way of actions he feels are important for the country. Forty-three percent (43%) of Democrats shared this belief, while 81% of Republicans and 67% of unaffiliated voters disagreed.
The more a voter approves of Obama’s performance, the more likely he or she is to say that states should not have the right to ignore the federal courts.
Higher income voters are more likely to oppose letting states ignore federal court rulings than those who earn less.
Support for ignoring the federal courts is up among most demographic groups, however.
Most voters have long believed that the Supreme Court justices have their own political agenda, and they still tend to feel that that agenda is more liberal than conservative.
A plurality (47%) of voters continues to believe the federal government has too much influence over state governments, and 54% think states should have the right to opt out of federal government programs that they don’t agree with. Even more (61%) think states should have the right to opt out of federally mandated programs if the federal government doesn’t help pay for them.
The Declaration of Independence, the foundational document that Americans honor on the Fourth of July, says that governments derive their authority from the consent of the governed, but just 25% believe that to be true of the federal government today.
Only 20% now consider the federal government a protector of individual liberty. Sixty percent (60%) see the government as a threat to individual liberty instead.
Additional information from this survey and a full demographic breakdown are available to Platinum Members only.
Please sign up for the Rasmussen Reports daily e-mail update (it’s free) or follow us on Twitter or Facebook. Let us keep you up to date with the latest public opinion news.
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
July 3, 2015 at 8:01 pm #26957
wvParticipantI stopped reading when i read this:
“…Republicans and conservatives – are those who traditionally have been the most supportive of the Constitution…”That’s just an opinion. Not provable. Not a ‘fact.’
w
vJuly 3, 2015 at 8:30 pm #26958bnwBlockedYou should read more since the times they are a changing.
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
July 4, 2015 at 1:56 am #26960
ZooeyModeratorI stopped reading when i read this:
“…Republicans and conservatives – are those who traditionally have been the most supportive of the Constitution…”That’s just an opinion. Not provable. Not a ‘fact.’
w
vYou are being kind by calling it opinion.
I would use the word hallucination.
Republicans and conservatives have fought against every measure of progress this country has known over the past century, from voting rights for women and blacks to…ah, Jesus. Nevermind. They’ve come down on the wrong side of history in the courts…always.
July 4, 2015 at 9:50 am #26962bnwBlockedYou can argue partisanship all you want and it won’t change the results.
“Only 20% now consider the federal government a protector of individual liberty. Sixty percent (60%) see the government as a threat to individual liberty instead.”
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
July 4, 2015 at 8:33 pm #26967
TSRFParticipant“Only 20% now consider the federal government a protector of individual liberty. Sixty percent (60%) see the government as a threat to individual liberty instead.”
Says who? Rasputin Reports??
Come on, you need to do better than that if you want to argue this point here.
Let’s just for a minute think what it would be like if the states had full rights to make their own laws. Are you living in a state where you would be OK with that? Personally, living in New England, I’d be OK with that, but I think it would be a horrible injustice for the majority of people living below the Mason / Dixon line, and for lots more living in all directions of said line.
July 4, 2015 at 10:44 pm #26968bnwBlockedI don’t have to do anything more than anyone else here. I posted what I found. Don’t really know what to say about your Mason/Dixon quip since who talks like that in 2015? Was that your attempt at arguing the point here? So you live in New England? That is punishment enough.
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
July 8, 2015 at 12:07 am #27060
MackeyserModeratorI’m just tired of Federalism.
It’s holding this nation back, truthfully.
Are we American or are we Texans and New Yorkers and Californians and Floridians? Because whenever there’s a HUGE need, we’re Americans. Whenever someone doesn’t like something, the retreat is to states rights.
The government is supposed to be big enough to help Americans in time of war and natural disaster, but so damn small that it can’t force a guy to manage a creek on his property without his say so.
The cognitive dissonance is staggering. It just..is.
If a massive meteor comes to hit the earth, will it matter about “states rights”? If Aliens come, will “states rights” matter? If a pandemic sweeps the planet, will people look to STATE governments to stem the tide or the FEDERAL government, the CDC, the NIH, and the FEDERAL institutions? If we go to war, will the states call up militias to constitute an Army? Oh yeah, we abandoned that and have the largest military industrial complex on the planet, so the people will rely on the FEDERAL government to wage war.
At the most basic level, the Federalist model made sense before the modern age.
In the modern age, the Federalist model only stops us from being what we should be FIRST and FOREMOST: AMERICANS. Not South Carolinians, Georgians, South Dakotans, Washingtonians, or Ohioans, but Americans. When I was in the Navy, we served under ONE flag and it sure wasn’t any STATE flag, it was Old Glory, the Red, White and Blue, our National Flag.
So all this “states this” and “states that” is, for me, a relic of the past that allows folks to try to have their cake and eat it, too… to have all the benefits of a massive federal government which is REQUIRED to manage a population of 300+ Million people while at the same time, trying to enjoy the benefits of local control.
The problem is that so much freaking time is wasted when the demands and desires of local control conflict with the demands and desires of centralized control.
And yes, I mean control. And I trust the Federal government to conduct war and so many government programs so much more than the states, it’s not even funny. In most states, their biggest jobs are education and roads. Where are societies biggest failures right now??? Education and roads… So, yeah… not thinking putting more trust in states is the way to go.
Europe under the Eurozone model is struggling with a version of the Federalist model, especially because of the IMF and their monetary policies (won’t get into that…). Bottom line is that they have sovereign nations that ultimately have to answer to one another under a shared economic incentive which isn’t managed. So, they have needs without a true governing body and as we see with the Greek crisis and with other crises, they end up being chasing their tails and having to negotiate every solution as if it were a trade agreement (and some of them kind of are). Not saying Europe should drop all the sovereign states and just become one massive country, but they also highlight the issues with Federalism.
In our case, we aren’t from sovereign countries aggregated for an economic purpose. We are all Americans, united under one banner and it’s unfortunate that a relic of our founding has become such a hindrance to true democracy as we try to solve our biggest problems going forward.
To wit. We could still keep the states as states, but they’d be more like provinces. Many functions could be relegated to the federal government and managed locally, such that local solutions would still be available while being within accordance with Federal laws.
So many things including the elimination of state laws v federal laws and allowing for a much more uniform legal system as well as uniform enforcement of law across the country would be at least possible.
I realize some folks read this and think, “one world government” or “I don’t trust the Federal government”, but I don’t know how to respond to folks who say these things. I don’t explicitly trust the Federal government, either, but the alternative is, what? What we have? Each state doing different things and having us spend time in 50 state houses figuring out the answers 50 different times and then having each populace hope it works out for them?
We wonder why government is so inefficient. Maybe because we spend time trying to figure out the answers to the same problem 50 times over and then fight over it when we come up with different answers in different places.
I’ll go to my death bed thinking if we are Americans in times of War, Crisis, and Natural Disaster, why can’t we just be Americans every day? Just and only Americans? Why can’t that be enough?
Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.
July 8, 2015 at 12:08 pm #27074bnwBlocked” In most states, their biggest jobs are education and roads. Where are societies biggest failures right now??? Education and roads… ”
Coincides perfectly with an increased federal role. Same for the state of the family and the Great Society.
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
July 8, 2015 at 2:00 pm #27076wvParticipant” In most states, their biggest jobs are education and roads. Where are societies biggest failures right now??? Education and roads… ”
Coincides perfectly with an increased federal role. Same for the state of the family and the Great Society.
My own little complaint is that the mega-corporations run the government,
and the country — and the “States”.So to me, it dont matter about “states rights” — cause, for example,
in my own state of WV, the ‘government’ is owned and operated by the
private-sector-Coal-Corporations and the private-sector-Fracking-corporations,
and a handful of other private-sector-Corporations.Giving States more rights wont change the fact that Corporations
run things. The Corpse run the Feds, and they run the States. They
run’em Both.Btw, fwiw I’d like to take this opportunity to say — i like the US Post Office.
I really do. I’ve never had a single problem with the Post Office. Never had a
single piece of mail lost, my whole life. Never had a problem with lines or delays
or anything.w
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This reply was modified 9 years, 4 months ago by
wv.
July 8, 2015 at 3:47 pm #27082ZooeyModerator” In most states, their biggest jobs are education and roads. Where are societies biggest failures right now??? Education and roads… ”
Coincides perfectly with an increased federal role. Same for the state of the family and the Great Society.
My own little complaint is that the mega-corporations run the government,
and the country — and the “States”.So to me, it dont matter about “states rights” — cause, for example,
in my own state of WV, the ‘government’ is owned and operated by the
private-sector-Coal-Corporations and the private-sector-Fracking-corporations,
and a handful of other private-sector-Corporations.Giving States more rights wont change the fact that Corporations
run things. The Corpse run the Feds, and they run the States. They
run’em Both.Btw, fwiw I’d like to take this opportunity to say — i like the US Post Office.
I really do. I’ve never had a single problem with the Post Office. Never had a
single piece of mail lost, my whole life. Never had a problem with lines or delays
or anything.w
vYeah. And if you want them to, they will take a packet from your mailbox in West Virginia and put it in my mailbox in rural California for the staggering charge of 49 cents, and do it in three days. Damn government inefficiency.
You know what else I like?
Opening up a tap at my sink and having clean, drinkable water gush out, and a sewer system that takes away the family waste. That’s all socialist, of course, so it must be bad.
July 8, 2015 at 6:02 pm #27085bnwBlocked” In most states, their biggest jobs are education and roads. Where are societies biggest failures right now??? Education and roads… ”
Coincides perfectly with an increased federal role. Same for the state of the family and the Great Society.
Btw, fwiw I’d like to take this opportunity to say — i like the US Post Office.
I really do. I’ve never had a single problem with the Post Office. Never had a
single piece of mail lost, my whole life. Never had a problem with lines or delays
or anything.w
vYou have been very lucky.
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
July 8, 2015 at 6:09 pm #27086bnwBlocked” In most states, their biggest jobs are education and roads. Where are societies biggest failures right now??? Education and roads… ”
Coincides perfectly with an increased federal role. Same for the state of the family and the Great Society.
My own little complaint is that the mega-corporations run the government,
and the country — and the “States”.So to me, it dont matter about “states rights” — cause, for example,
in my own state of WV, the ‘government’ is owned and operated by the
private-sector-Coal-Corporations and the private-sector-Fracking-corporations,
and a handful of other private-sector-Corporations.Giving States more rights wont change the fact that Corporations
run things. The Corpse run the Feds, and they run the States. They
run’em Both.Btw, fwiw I’d like to take this opportunity to say — i like the US Post Office.
I really do. I’ve never had a single problem with the Post Office. Never had a
single piece of mail lost, my whole life. Never had a problem with lines or delays
or anything.w
vYeah. And if you want them to, they will take a packet from your mailbox in West Virginia and put it in my mailbox in rural California for the staggering charge of 49 cents, and do it in three days. Damn government inefficiency.
You know what else I like?
Opening up a tap at my sink and having clean, drinkable water gush out, and a sewer system that takes away the family waste. That’s all socialist, of course, so it must be bad.
Water and waste water treatment are the federal government for you? Really? Are you on a military base on a small island? Municipal is not federal. 3 days for a packet from WV to CA? Not in my experience. Lucky to get 3 day service to a bordering state.
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
July 8, 2015 at 9:25 pm #27088ZooeyModeratorI left the federal/state argument for a stake in the government/anti-government argument. Water and waste are county.
But on USPS, yes, I’ve never seen it take longer than 3 days anywhere in the country first class. In my life.
July 9, 2015 at 12:00 am #27092
InvaderRamModeratori often wonder if any of this matters as i believe that humans will find a way to fuck it up regardless.
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