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October 14, 2015 at 10:15 pm #32402
znModeratorFoles picks up the pieces after career-worst game
Jim Thomas
After playing the role of human piñata Sunday in Lambeau Field, surprisingly, Nick Foles didn’t need help getting out of bed the next day.
“I felt all right,” Foles said with a shrug. “I was able to get out of bed, and get some work in and get the blood flowing again. I felt good. Good Lord protected the body throughout the game, so I feel good.”
Film study of the Rams’ 24-10 loss at Green Bay showed that Foles got hit 12 times (three of which were sacks) on the 33 occasions he dropped back to pass. And most of those dozen hits weren’t love taps. He absorbed some hard shots.
“Yeah, he did,” coach Jeff Fisher said. “He took one to the sternum (from Clay Matthews) that I thought should’ve been a foul. But yeah, he’s a tough guy. He’s gonna get up and he’s gonna play the next play. It’s not going to rattle him.”
Neither is an interception — or four.
“Nick’s tough,” said linebacker James Laurinaitis. “Not just physically; he’s mentally tough. Even when things aren’t going well, you won’t see him on the sidelines pouting. … He really just forgets about it and goes out there the next drive and believes the next drive’s gonna be successful. In the long run that’s gonna help us.
“When you have a QB that’s even-keel like that — the guys around him, it kind of gives them more confidence. He’s not gonna shy away from his mistakes. He’ll go up to the guys and say: ‘It was my bad, next time we’re gonna put points on the board.’ ”
When it comes to forgetting about mistakes, Foles may need to develop a case of amnesia after the Green Bay contest, arguably the worst game of his still-young NFL career. Throwing four interceptions is so out of character for Foles, you have to assume it’s an outlier.
Foles is normally very careful with the football. He had thrown only one interception in the Rams’ first four contests entering the Green Bay game. In fact, prior to Green Bay his 13 interceptions were the second-lowest total among all NFL quarterbacks who had thrown at least 500 passes since the start of the 2013. (Second to Green Bay’s Aaron Rodgers.)
On the first two interceptions he threw against the Packers, one of which was returned for a touchdown, Foles was hit while throwing. Should he have taken a sack on those plays? Tried to sidestep the rush? Perhaps.
But his two fourth-quarter interceptions, which both came in the red zone, simply looked like bad throws into double coverage. Both were throws to the right on third down from the Green Bay 7.
On the first, Packers linebacker Joe Thomas basically baited Foles into making the throw. Thomas, playing inside and underneath, quickly pounced on the pass. But instead of getting the interception, the throw bounced off his hands and then off intended receiver tight end Lance Kendricks before being grabbed in the end zone by safety Ha Ha Clinton-Dix.
On the play, Foles had running back Benny Cunningham open in the flat but didn’t look his way. Cunningham might have scored had the pass gone his way.
On the second red zone interception, rookie corner Quinten Rollins made a diving catch. Wide receiver Stedman Bailey broke open over the middle, and might have been a better option, although he may not have scored had the pass gone his way.
As quarterbacks usually do, Foles accepted full blame for all four interceptions. He has spent the bye week practices working on those mistakes and others.
“Developing character you learn from mistakes,” Foles said. “It’s just how do you learn from those things? I look at them critically, and I want to get back on the practice field and improve on the things I didn’t do well. So this time is very valuable.”
He stayed late after Wednesday’s practice working with wide receiver Brian Quick. While that was going on, tight end Jared Cook was on the JUGS machine catching passes.
“How can I get a little bit better this week?” Foles said. “How can I get a little bit better today? You can see guys are doing that, and that’s what we’ve gotta keep doing.”
Part of the purpose of bye week practices is self-scouting; working on things that need to be improved, and tweaking the playbook just a bit. It’s a rare in-season chance to look in the mirror instead of looking at that week’s opponent.
“You have to turn negatives into positives,” Fisher said. “So this works for us right now. Works for (Foles). Again, one of his strengths is to be able to put things behind him, and he’s done that. And he’s looking forward to moving ahead.”
One-third of the way through his first season with the Rams, Foles has had two games where his passer rating exceeded 100. That number equates to winning football at the quarterback position, and not surprisingly those were the two games the Rams won — against Seattle (115.8 rating) and at Arizona (128.9).
But Foles was so-so at best against Washington and Pittsburgh, and then had the clunker against Green Bay. So what do we make of Foles through five games? Obviously it’s been a mixed bag.
“I feel like I progressed,” Foles said. “There’s definitely been some growing pains, and I’m learning. … I want to keep building, keep improving. The big thing is just being consistent every week and putting us in a situation where we can win the game.”
By now the mitigating circumstances surrounding Foles’ debut St. Louis season are well-known. He’s learning a new offensive system, with a first-time NFL coordinator (Frank Cignetti), and a first-time NFL quarterbacks coach (Chris Weinke).
Foles is operating behind the league’s most inexperienced offensive line, and he didn’t have star running back Todd Gurley in the lineup for the first two games. (And had Gurley only in a part-time role in Game 3, against Pittsburgh.)
“He’s gonna continue to get better,” Fisher said of Foles. “He’s just become more and more familiar with our system and our players, and he’ll continue to improve. So by no means has he peaked.”
October 14, 2015 at 10:15 pm #32368
InvaderRamModeratorwhen a qb is already trying to figure out timing and chemistry with his receivers i imagine those problems get exacerbated when he’s under constant pressure throwing off what little timing they’ve established.
i believe in foles. and i’ve seen enough flashes to believe there’s better days ahead for the offense. i think there’s a competent passing game somewhere in there.
foles hits kendricks. and the play was there to be made. you’re looking at 17-21 with 3 minutes to play. eliminate those earlier mistakes and maybe they’re even leading going into the fourth quarter. the rams don’t need him to be great. just a little smarter.
foles needs to take care of the ball. he and the receivers need to keep grinding in practice. and the oline needs to keep getting experience. i don’t think these are impossible things to do.
October 15, 2015 at 5:58 pm #32407znModeratorPractice Report 10/14: Foles, Offense Looking for Consistency
Myles Simmons
The Rams have had big wins and disappointing losses in their first five games. And as they use the bye week for some self-scouting, quarterback Nick Foles said the offense has been working to become more consistent.
“There’s some good and there’s some stuff we need to improve on. The big thing I see is we need more consistency on offense. Whether it be my play or just us moving the ball,” Foles said. “It’s the ultimate team game in the sense [that] on offense, everybody’s got to work together. It’s something that we’re working towards this week.”
So far, Foles has completed 57.4 percent of his passes this season for 956 yards with six touchdowns and five interceptions — four of which came last week against the Packers. Still, head coach Jeff Fisher said he’s liked what he’s seen from the quarterback so far, knowing Foles still has plenty of room to grow.
“He’s going to continue to get better,” Fisher said. “He’s just become more and more familiar with our system and our players and he’ll continue to improve. So, by no means has he peaked.”
“There definitely has been some growing pains and I’m learning,” Foles said. “But where I want to be right now — I want to keep improving every day. I am where I am right now, but I want to keep getting better. I want to keep building, keep improving. The big thing is just being consistent every week and putting us in a situation where we can win the game.”
Part of the improvement process is gaining more comfort in the offense. The quarterback is still relatively new within it, but has been able to grasp it well. Still, Foles said there is more he can do to master it.
“It’s a process. I’m learning more and more every day,” Foles said. “As long as I play this game, I’ll keep learning. We’re still improving, still figuring it out. That’ll always be the case. Guys who play in this league for 15 years will still tell you they’re still working to figure it out and get better and that’s what we’re doing.”
It’s clear the quarterback and his receivers are working to gain chemistry and comfort with one another, as they’ve been spending extra time on the field following practice.
“That’s what he does,” Fisher said of Foles. “He has a chance to look at the cut-ups and to be involved in the self-scout process. Those things understandably help. Then, as we make changes offensively, he’s involved in them — which he should be.”
Part of that process has been getting to develop relationships with offensive coordinator Frank Cignetti and quarterbacks coach Chris Weinke.
“We’re getting to know each other more and more each week,” Foles said. “You want to build those relationships throughout the weeks. Go through these tough times together. There’s also been a lot of great things going on together, so as a group we build consistency.”
But even as he’s involved in the offensive tweaks, Foles said he’s not trying to reinvent the wheel.
“They have the system — Cignetti’s system,” Foles said. “Me, I just try to learn the system more and more and more of what he wants from each and every play. Through time, if I see something I mention it and then we work together on how we can fit it in to what he already has.”
And so as the season continues, Foles said he feels like the offense is close to clicking, especially with the emergence of Todd Gurley in the run game.
“There’s definitely a lot of great things that are going on,” Foles said. “The key is to stay positive, keep working. Keep working on your craft. You’ve got to be critical of yourself, but at the same time, keep yourself uplifted. And that’s what the guys are doing.”
October 17, 2015 at 1:32 am #32461znModeratorfrom off the net
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fearsomefour
I see Foles create pressure sometimes by rolling to his right, always to his right, when he feels pressure that may not be there. In the Washington game there was a play where Robinson blocked his man down inside….there was no one to to Foles left, feeling pressure that wasn’t really there he rolled to his right….running past Saffold who had his back to Foles, Saffolds guy just peeled off and gave chase. He created pressure on that play.
It is a mix of things. The O line has certainly done their part to create pressure….not picking up simples twists or stunts (again), whiffing on blocks and not having a consistent running game. Foles does his part as well. Until the running game works well enough where play action has meaning some struggle with both will continue I think.
This is the knock of Foles. Slow through progressions and finding secondary guys. Leads to plenty of check downs too. In Philly throwing to RBs is a decent chunk of the offense. Here it is a lack of early down production. The running and play action is what Foles needs more than anything. If that doesn’t develop I think Foles will continue to be up and down. His last 13 games (after his “dream” season) he has 19 TDs and 15 INTs. Thats who he is without extra help from the O in my opinion.
October 17, 2015 at 1:49 am #32465InvaderRamModeratorthe passing game with the rbs is another thing cignetti needs to develop too. there’s real potential there.
October 17, 2015 at 11:43 am #32482znModeratorfrom off the net
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thehammer
Foles ran a 4.68 short shuttle and 7.14 3 cone…basically the worst scores by a qb going back to 2002…as far back as nfldraftscout kept records. A heavy legged, bad athlete that struggles moving inside the pocket. Flacco ran a 4.27 and a 6.82 in comparison.
my problem with Foles. isn’t his slow feet .it’s the mental part. I went back rewatched all his int’s at Philly. They were almost all identical..slow in his reads getting the ball to his 2nd receiver…just consistently late which shows in his time in the pocket.
Foles has averaged 2.84 sec in time to throw throw the ball(2.63 in 2015)for his career…scary slow times for a pocket passer..Brady and P Manning, two more bad athletes, avg around 2.3 secs and are always among the quickest in time to throw in the nfl. .
.5 seconds is an eternity in the pocket. He ain’t doing the young oline any favors and even Mannion, another bad athlete, only needed 2.35 secs to throw in the preseason…
bad athlete who is slow in his reads which shows in his play action qb rating of 111.3 and bad non play action qb rating of 66.5..also Foles has thrown away 16 balls this season the most in the nfl and almost twice as the next qb… Slow dropping back into the pocket and slow finding his 2nd option so often has to just throw the ball out of bounds when pressured
Foles is a qb you can lose with but that might be a tad harsh. Best comparision might be Matt Schaub at Houston but Schaub had Andre Johnson to throw to who could easily beat man coverage…Rams don’t have wr on the team who wins 1 v. 1
Foles has a lot to like, hard worker, good size, great touch on his intermediate, long routes and is fearless… BUT also has serious negatives…struggles without play action, needs great pass protection and a good #1 wr capable of winning 1 v. 1 battles to be effective.
October 17, 2015 at 7:59 pm #32498
wvParticipant==
thehammer
Foles ran a 4.68 short shuttle and 7.14 3 cone…basically the worst scores by a qb going back to 2002…as far back as nfldraftscout kept records. A heavy legged, bad athlete that struggles moving inside the pocket. Flacco ran a 4.27 and a 6.82 in comparison.
my problem with Foles. isn’t his slow feet .it’s the mental part. I went back rewatched all his int’s at Philly. They were almost all identical..slow in his reads getting the ball to his 2nd receiver…just consistently late which shows in his time in the pocket.
Foles has averaged 2.84 sec in time to throw throw the ball(2.63 in 2015)for his career…scary slow times for a pocket passer..Brady and P Manning, two more bad athletes, avg around 2.3 secs and are always among the quickest in time to throw in the nfl. .
.5 seconds is an eternity in the pocket. He ain’t doing the young oline any favors and even Mannion, another bad athlete, only needed 2.35 secs to throw in the preseason…
bad athlete who is slow in his reads which shows in his play action qb rating of 111.3 and bad non play action qb rating of 66.5..also Foles has thrown away 16 balls this season the most in the nfl and almost twice as the next qb… Slow dropping back into the pocket and slow finding his 2nd option so often has to just throw the ball out of bounds when pressured
Foles is a qb you can lose with but that might be a tad harsh. Best comparision might be Matt Schaub at Houston but Schaub had Andre Johnson to throw to who could easily beat man coverage…Rams don’t have wr on the team who wins 1 v. 1
Foles has a lot to like, hard worker, good size, great touch on his intermediate, long routes and is fearless… BUT also has serious negatives…struggles without play action, needs great pass protection and a good #1 wr capable of winning 1 v. 1 battles to be effective.
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Interesting stuff. Lots to wonder about with Mr. Foles.
On the other side of the ledger — take another look
at THE clutch pass to Stedman Bailey. That
pass is just F’ing Awesome. A game-winner.w
vOctober 18, 2015 at 1:08 pm #32549znModeratorfrom off the net
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fearsomefour
I see Foles create pressure sometimes by rolling to his right, always to his right, when he feels pressure that may not be there. In the Washington game there was a play where Robinson blocked his man down inside….there was no one to to Foles left, feeling pressure that wasn’t really there he rolled to his right….running past Saffold who had his back to Foles, Saffolds guy just peeled off and gave chase. He created pressure on that play.
It is a mix of things. The O line has certainly done their part to create pressure….not picking up simples twists or stunts (again), whiffing on blocks and not having a consistent running game. Foles does his part as well. Until the running game works well enough where play action has meaning some struggle with both will continue I think.
This is the knock of Foles. Slow through progressions and finding secondary guys. Leads to plenty of check downs too. In Philly throwing to RBs is a decent chunk of the offense. Here it is a lack of early down production. The running and play action is what Foles needs more than anything. If that doesn’t develop I think Foles will continue to be up and down. His last 13 games (after his “dream” season) he has 19 TDs and 15 INTs. Thats who he is without extra help from the O in my opinion.
Some follow-up.
==fearsomefour
For offenses to work, really work, there are so many components.
Everyone gets frustrated at a 5 yard pass on a 3 and 9. There are plenty of times where that is the only choice the QB because of blitzs/coverage. Because the team is in the third and long the D is more easily able to dictate where the pass is going. There are plenty of times the QB is forced to the check down. A guy like Rivers in San Diego is endlessly taking check downs this year, it has replaced their running game. Four to five yards a play is plenty of first downs, consistently executing run or pass is the key, obviously.
The big reduction in penalties I have taken as a sign of major progress for the O line and the team as a whole. I believe it is progressing. No team can be totally one sided in the NFL, the defenses are just too good. Teams lucky enough to have one of the few top tier QBs can get away with a lot more on O, we are not one of those teams.
The run game should do a lot to fix the pass blocking. I think we are in for a better second half (not that we are at the half way point yet).
The play action is the key for the passing game in this offense. The running game and time that that and play action buys. Running 35 short pass plays with a few long attempts mixed in is not what the O is going to be.
October 20, 2015 at 12:08 am #32624InvaderRamModeratorthe one question i gotta ask myself. can he be as good as eli manning?
i’d say he definitely could be as good as eli manning. and i’d also say that gurley would rival any running back the giants had.
and that dline could be as good as that giants dline.
that’s what i think of when i see these rams play.
October 20, 2015 at 9:33 am #32641znModeratorthe one question i gotta ask myself. can he be as good as eli manning?
i’d say he definitely could be as good as eli manning. and i’d also say that gurley would rival any running back the giants had.
Interesting way to look at it.
Foles can be good for long series of games.
Conversely, when the Giants OL fell apart in 2013, so did Eli. Just like our Nick does.
So the parallel is useful I think.
.
October 20, 2015 at 10:08 pm #32670znModeratorNick Foles looking to bounce back, offer more for Rams after bye
Nick Wagoner
EARTH CITY, Mo. — Five games into his fresh start with the St. Louis Rams, quarterback Nick Foles’ comfort level is a good barometer for the offense at large.
Which is to say that Foles’ development in the Rams’ scheme is much like the scheme itself: A work in progress.
“I felt like I progressed,” Foles said. “There definitely has been some growing pains and I’m learning. But, where I want to be right now, I want to keep improving every day. I am where I am right now, but I want to keep getting better. I want to keep building, keep improving. The big thing is just being consistent every week and putting us in a situation where we can win the game.”
Foles and the Rams have been in position to win four of their five games so far, coming away with victories against NFC West division foes Seattle and Arizona but falling short despite opportunities against Pittsburgh and Green Bay. While you’d be hard-pressed to find any player who will say the bye week comes at a bad time, Foles would probably be the first to say that the Rams’ bye last week came at an ideal time.
The Rams’ week 5 loss to the Packers was Foles’ worst NFL game, a combination of his own mistakes, receiver miscues and an offensive line that allowed the Packers to batter him to the tune of three sacks and 12 quarterback hits on 33 drop backs. Foles threw four interceptions, two more than he’d thrown in any of his previous 32 career games. Foles’ 1.5 QBR was also the worst of his career amongst games in which he’s thrown more than one pass.
Despite the many hits and the costly turnovers, Foles kept getting up and going back at it. If nothing else, he’s already proved to teammates that he’s not afraid to keep coming even when things aren’t going well.
“He’s tough, not just physically but mentally tough,” linebacker James Laurinaitis said. “He’s a guy that even when things aren’t going well you won’t see him on the sidelines pouting. He’s not going to get down because he threw a pick. He really just forgets about it and goes out there the next drive and just plays and knows the next drive is going to be successful. I think in the long run that’s going to help us. You have a QB who is even keel like that, it allows the guys around them to have more confidence. He’s not going to shy away from his mistakes. When you have a guy who is not too high or too low like that, a lot of times it bodes well in the long run.”
But the Rams will need more than intangibles from Foles in the long run. While Foles already has a good grasp on the offense, he hasn’t yet reached the point where he’s completely comfortable. That’s a process that takes more than one offseason and six NFL weeks to reach.
Along with that, Foles also doesn’t have an extensive amount of freedom to make adjustments at the line of scrimmage. He says he has some leeway depending on the play call but also acknowledged that as he gets more experience in the system, he’ll get more chances to identify things and make adjustments at the line.
“Yeah, absolutely,” Foles said. “I have a long ways to go. I have a long ways to go. I have a lot of work to improve. That will be the case for as long as I play the game. I’ll always have a lot of room to improve on. That’s why we go out there each and every day and try to get a little better.”
Foles also made it clear that some of the early part of this season has been spent shaking off the rust after missing the last half of the 2014 season because of injury. He doesn’t use that as an excuse but he’s also trying to do that while acclimating to an offense that went through well-documented changes during the offseason.
Foles is playing for a new quarterbacks coach and new coordinator with the league’s youngest offensive line and a mostly unproven group of pass catchers, so it’s understandable why his play has been up and down in the first five games. And there hasn’t been much rhyme or reason behind Foles’ success or mistakes since he’s been under pressure in pretty much every game. Sometimes he beats it consistently, as he did against Seattle and Arizona, and sometimes he struggles mightily like he did against Green Bay and Washington.
Which is why Foles could be found during the bye week spending extra time on the practice field working on timing with receivers. Based on what we know about the team, Foles doesn’t need to return to the Pro Bowl level of 2013 (though the Rams wouldn’t mind). Instead, he needs to be more consistent in the face of pressure and keep turnovers to a minimum. That, along with the emergence of running back Todd Gurley, would go a long way toward getting the Rams where they want to go in 2015.
“I think it’s just learning a new system,” Foles said. “It’s not, like we’ve said, second nature. The offense I had been in was second nature to me because I had been in it for two years and felt real comfortable. You’re learning a new system, so as you learn, you just got to get to the point where it’s second nature so you can just go out there and react to it. I’m getting more and more comfortable each week.”
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