Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Rams Huddle › Fisher says he left Rams in 'good shape,' lauds Sean McVay
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December 23, 2017 at 4:35 pm #79375
znModeratorJeff Fisher says he left Rams in ‘good shape,’ lauds Sean McVay
Alden Gonzalez
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21852646/jeff-fisher-says-left-los-angeles-rams-pretty-good-shape
LOS ANGELES — Former coach Jeff Fisher has “no regret whatsoever” about how things went down with the Los Angeles Rams and would seemingly like a little bit of credit for what has since transpired, saying he left the team “in pretty good shape.”
Ahead of the Rams’ matchup with the Tennessee Titans on Sunday, Fisher, a longtime head coach for both organizations, took part in an hour-long interview with The Midday 180 radio show in Nashville and touched on his most recent employer.
Fisher was fired 13 games into his fifth season with the Rams in 2016, which ended with a 4-12 record in the franchise’s return to L.A. Now, under first-year head coach Sean McVay, the Rams are 10-4 and can lock up their first division title since 2003 this weekend.
“I’m a huge fan of the Ram players,” Fisher told The Midday 180 on Friday. “They’re basically — I don’t want to say my players, but I had a lot to do with that roster. Left them in pretty good shape. And Sean, as he’s proven in this very short period of time, is an outstanding young coach. And he’s got the offense rolling, which they needed.”
The Rams were no better than 7-8-1 in Fisher’s five seasons as head coach. During that time, the offense finished no better than 21st in scoring and ranked last in every major category last season.
This season, the Rams lead the NFL in total points, point differential and rank 10th in yards per game.
Fisher, who has a home near Nashville and spent 2017 away from coaching, said he is “really, really excited for the players. They did what we wanted to do before I left.”
Fisher credited the additions on the offensive line, with left tackle Andrew Whitworth and center John Sullivan, as well as a trio of new receivers in Sammy Watkins, Robert Woods and Cooper Kupp. He also said McVay has “done a great job” with Jared Goff, whom Fisher played a part in drafting No. 1 overall in 2016.
Goff struggled mightily while starting the final seven games last season, finishing with an 18.3 Total QBR that was the lowest by a wide margin for those who attempted at least 200 passes.
This year, with McVay guiding him, Goff is a first alternate for the Pro Bowl.
“We knew that was coming,” Fisher said. “… That’s why we traded up with you guys here [the Titans] to get him, because we knew he had that kind of potential. We felt like both the quarterbacks had a chance to be franchise quarterbacks. We were right. Philly got theirs [with Carson Wentz], and the Rams got theirs.”
Earlier this week, Fisher’s longtime right-hand man, Dave McGinnis, now a radio color commentator for the Titans, was asked about the resurgent Rams by The Tennessean and said: “First of all, Jeff Fisher and I, we built this roster, you know what I’m saying?”
McGinnis, the Rams’ assistant head coach under Fisher from 2012 to 2016, said the team’s defense and special teams “has been playoff ready for two years” and that it was only the offense that needed to get right. McGinnis credited McVay for bringing “a tremendous offensive system in there,” but also credited Fisher — and never once mentioned sixth-year general manager Les Snead — for drafting star running back Todd Gurley.
“It’s just, we were the youngest team in the league four years in a row,” McGinnis told The Tennessean. “This team has grown up together. This is one of the better teams in the league right now, personnel-wise and the way they’re playing.”
At full health, 12 of the Rams’ 22 starters were brought in while Fisher was the head coach, in addition to the team’s kicker (Greg Zuerlein), punter (Johnny Hekker) and return specialist (Pharoh Cooper), all three of whom were selected to the Pro Bowl.
Special teams was a consistent strength under current special teams coordinator John Fassel, and the defense showed spurts of dominance under former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams. But the offense was a top-to-bottom mess, at offensive line, receiver, quarterback and, as last year showed, even running back.
Fisher was head coach for the Titans from 1995 to 2010, starting when they were the Houston Oilers. He led them to six playoff appearances from 1999 to 2008, including a close Super Bowl loss to the Rams. But it has been nine years since Fisher, 59, last coached a team that finished with a winning record.
Fisher, who inherited a Rams franchise that had lost 65 of 80 games over five seasons, defended his track record on The Midday 180.
“My perspective’s different because I went through it, and I know exactly what I went through,” he said. “I get a kick out of people who [say], ‘Oh, you just tied Dan Reeves for the most losses in the history of the National Football League.’ Well I’m a few wins away from being in the top 10. So, where do you want to emphasize; what’s your point? Two franchises, five different cities, six different stadiums. Not an easy thing to do.
“Chargers moved from San Diego to Orange County and started 0-4. Relocation is huge. I’m not making excuses, but last year we moved from St. Louis to Oxnard, Oxnard to UC Irvine, UC Irvine to Thousand Oaks. And that’s what our offseason was about.”
December 23, 2017 at 4:48 pm #79376znModeratorFormer Rams coach Jeff Fisher says he left team ‘in pretty good shape’
RICH HAMMOND
Amid unsourced reports that he’s interested in returning to the NFL, former Rams coach Jeff Fisher did a radio interview Friday and defended, at length, his five-year tenure with the Rams.
“I have no regrets whatsoever,” Fisher said on Nashville’s 104.5-FM. “I am a huge fan of the Rams players. They’re basically — I don’t want to say my players — but I had a lot to do with that roster. Left them in pretty good shape, and Sean (McVay), as he has shown in a short period of time, is an outstanding young coach, and he’s got the offense going, which was needed.”
The Rams fired Fisher last December, with three games remaining in the 2016 season. Fisher coached the Rams to a 31-45-1 record and they never made the playoffs. McVay, in his first season as Fisher’s successor, has led the Rams to a 10-4 record and the cusp of the NFC West title.
And while Fisher, twice in a 55-minute interview, gave unprompted praise to McVay, he said the Rams made needed talent upgrades on offense and “did what we wanted to do before I left.”
In recent weeks, various stories have indicated Fisher wants to return to the sideline. His 22-year coaching career included a trip to the Super Bowl with Tennessee in 1999, but Fisher also has only six winning seasons. Fisher is 12th in NFL history with 173 coaching wins and, as he pointed out in the interview, coached the Titans and Rams when both teams relocated.
Fisher was given, during the interview, an open-ended chance to defend his record.
“My perspective is different because I went through it and I know exactly what I went through,” Fisher said. “I get a kick out of people (saying), ‘Oh, you just tied Dan Reeves for most losses in the history of the National Football League.’ Well, I’m a few wins away from being in the top 10. So, where do you want to emphasize? What’s your point?
“Two different franchises, five different cities, six different stadiums. Not an easy thing to do. The Chargers moved from San Diego to Orange County and started 0-4 (this season). Relocation is huge. And I’m not making excuses.”
Fisher did a deeper dive into his time with the Rams, which started in 2012, a year after the team went 2-14 and fired Steve Spagnuolo. Fisher pointed out that the Rams “averaged three wins a year for five years before I got there.” Fisher went 7-8-1 in his first season, but never won more than seven games.
“We were making progress and the team was deprived,” Fisher said. “It was deprived of talent. So we started building. The next year, our quarterback tears his ACL. The next year, our quarterback tears his ACL again.”
That’s pretty much where Fisher’s defense of himself ended, with Sam Bradford’s second injury in 2014, although Fisher did speak at length about Jared Goff, the quarterback Fisher and the Rams drafted with the No. 1 overall pick in 2016.
Fisher waited until midseason to start Goff, who then went 0-7 and suffered with a porous offensive line and an inefficient group of targets. Fisher said he didn’t regret any of his choices with Goff, who is a Pro Bowl first alternate this season. Of Goff’s success, Fisher said, “We knew that was coming.”
“All through it, I was thinking about the best interests of the franchise, not myself,” Fisher said. “If I was worried about myself, I probably would have started him from day one and said, ‘Hey, this guy is going to be a better player.’ That was his rookie year, so we could chalk (struggles) up to a rookie year, but no, I wanted to do what was best for Jared.”
December 23, 2017 at 5:35 pm #79378
wvParticipantWell they had lots of high draft choices — cause of the RG3 trade and because they kept Losing.
But sure they picked some good players. They took a chance on Quinn and he did well. Brockers has done well. Tru Johnson. Ogletree.
McQuade, Legatron. Hekker.
P.Cooper, Gurley, Havenstein, Goff on offense.Lots of good players picked by Snisher.
But they totally fucked up the Wide Receiver Unit year after year after year. Jarod Cook. Britt. Etc.
Again, for me Fisher will always be a rather “ordinary” NFL coach. I dont think he’s terrible, but i wouldnt ever hire him if i were an owner. I never saw in Fisher any real “separation” from the vast majority of NFL coaches. If Fisher were a QB he’d be Andy Dalton. You can win with Dalton but he’s no Drew Brees. Ya know. Fisher was ok. He was better than his record i think. But i never had much faith he’d be able to outcoach the really topnotch coaches in the NFL.
Course this isnt like math. Just an opinion based on my gut intuitions and stuff.
To reduce to a report card — Fisher was a “C”. Not an “F” but not more than a “C” either. When he was hired i was thinking he’d be a “B”.
w
vDecember 23, 2017 at 5:47 pm #79379
HerzogParticipantI would hire Fisher if I were a downtrodden team like Cleveland or the Rams used to be. With the secret plan to fireplace him once he got some decent talent in and violet up the defensive Roster.
Remember Marty Schottenhiemer? He could really build a talented team. I would have done the same thing with him.
December 23, 2017 at 5:48 pm #79380znModeratorWell they had lots of high draft choices — cause of the RG3 trade and because they kept Losing.
But sure they picked some good players. They took a chance on Quinn and he did well. Brockers has done well. Tru Johnson. Ogletree.
Well first, Spags/Devaney took Quinn the year before. He’s not a Fisher/Snead guy.
BUT it wasn’t just high draft choices.
But first, the first round. Their existing 1st round picks include Brockers, Austin, Tree, Donald, Gurley, and Goff. You will be hard pressed to find many teams with a 1st round record THAT good, and that’s even with the GR miss. Donald and Gurley were both rookies of the year. Both are shining this year. Donald is one of the best defensive players of his generation. Goff sure looks like he will slowly achieve his potential.
Look at the secondary. They could afford to let both Jenkins (2nd round) and McLeod (UDFA) go and trade Gaines (6th round) as part of the Watkins deal (he’s a starter there) and STILL came up with not only Tru (3rd round) but also Joyner (2nd round) and Hill (UDFA). And Cody Davis (UDFA) looked good when he played. That is about as good as it gets drafting for the secondary, or as good as you will ever see without a 1st round pick.
The depth on the front 7 is good too–Hager (7th round), Littleton (UDFA), Longacre (UDFA), Westbrooks (UDFA) have all taken the field and done well, sometimes as injury replacements. Barron was a trade for, basically, a 4th round pick.
Special teams is monumental. That includes Hekker (UDFA), Zuerlein (6th round), Cooper (4th round), the aforementioned Hager and Littleton (2 blocked punts!) and Thomas too (6th round). Special teams won a whole game for them, and contributed heavily in the Seattle win.
Austin is stil a role player. McVay values him though I don’t know if he has a future. Higbee (4th round) is okay but is starting for now…at least he’s a blocker. There’s Hav (2nd round) and Brown (3rd round), both of whom do well in a very good OL.
That my friend is a lot.
I don’t think it can be legitmately downplayed.
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December 23, 2017 at 6:04 pm #79381wvParticipantI would hire Fisher if I were a downtrodden team like Cleveland or the Rams used to be. With the secret plan to fireplace him once he got some decent talent in and violet up the defensive Roster.
Remember Marty Schottenhiemer? He could really build a talented team. I would have done the same thing with him.
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Really? You would hire him if you were the Browns?
I would not.
I would want a more entertaining offense.
w
vDecember 23, 2017 at 6:06 pm #79382znModeratorI would hire Fisher if I were a downtrodden team like Cleveland or the Rams used to be. With the secret plan to fireplace him once he got some decent talent in and violet up the defensive Roster.
Remember Marty Schottenhiemer? He could really build a talented team. I would have done the same thing with him.
Schottenheimer never got to a superbowl though.
And—Schottenheimer also didn’t have a long series of extensively injured OLs combined with #2 caliber qbs. He also didn’t have to move a team.
I would take Fisher over Marty, myself.
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December 23, 2017 at 6:12 pm #79383wvParticipantWell they had lots of high draft choices — cause of the RG3 trade and because they kept Losing.
But sure they picked some good players. They took a chance on Quinn and he did well. Brockers has done well. Tru Johnson. Ogletree.
Well first, Spags/Devaney took Quinn the year before. He’s not a Fisher/Snead guy.
BUT it wasn’t just high draft choices.
But first, the first round. Their existing 1st round picks include Brockers, Austin, Tree, Donald, Gurley, and Goff. You will be hard pressed to find many teams with a 1st round record THAT good, and that’s even with the GR miss. Donald and Gurley were both rookies of the year. Both are shining this year. Donald is one of the best defensive players of his generation. Goff sure looks like he will slowly achieve his potential.
Look at the secondary. They could afford to let both Jenkins (2nd round) and McLeod (UDFA) go and trade Gaines (6th round) as part of the Watkins deal (he’s a starter there) and STILL came up with not only Tru (3rd round) but also Joyner (2nd round) and Hill (UDFA). And Cody Davis (UDFA) looked good when he played. That is about as good as it gets drafting for the secondary, or as good as you will ever see without a 1st round pick.
The depth on the front 7 is good too–Hager (7th round), Littleton (UDFA), Longacre (UDFA), Westbrooks (UDFA) have all taken the field and done well, sometimes as injury replacements. Barron was a trade for, basically, a 4th round pick.
Special teams is monumental. That includes Hekker (UDFA), Zuerlein (6th round), Cooper (4th round), the aforementioned Hager and Littleton (2 blocked punts!) and Thomas too (6th round). Special teams won a whole game for them, and contributed heavily in the Seattle win.
Austin is stil a role player. McVay values him though I don’t know if he has a future. Higbee (4th round) is okay but is starting for now…at least he’s a blocker. There’s Hav (2nd round) and Brown (3rd round), both of whom do well in a very good OL.
That my friend is a lot.
I don’t think it can be legitmately downplayed.
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Well first off, i would think plenty of other personnel depts could indeed pick first round players just as good as those you listed, if they picked in the same high slots the Rams picked most of them in. I mean, Tavon was a miss as far as I’m concerned. GRob was a big miss.
Having said that sure, it was good personnel work. I think Snead is good. I give HIM better than a “C”. He might very well be an “A”.
Fisher failed to draft a topnotch Wide Receiver and he failed to find a good free agent WR. And his tight ends were not scary to opposing teams either. Its awfully hard to go deep in the playoffs with that kind of glaring weakness. It can be done, but its hard.
So what grade would YOU give Fisher? And would YOU hire him if you were a struggling team?
w
vDecember 23, 2017 at 6:21 pm #79384
InvaderRamModeratorhis two biggest weaknesses were his inability to find a wr outside of danny amendola and his inability to have any kind of consistency at the offensive coordinator position.
everything else he was able to do.
i sometimes wonder what would have happened had he hired kyle shanahan. i don’t know why that didn’t happen or if shanahan didn’t want the job. but that woulda been a helluva fit. but then he probably woulda lost him anyway to some team needing a head coach – possibly the niners!
December 23, 2017 at 6:24 pm #79385InvaderRamModeratori’ll also say this. had bradford stayed healthy. if they hire shanahan. yeah. those could have been some good teams there.
shoot bradford, amendola, and jackson showed promise i thought. just couldn’t stay healthy.
December 23, 2017 at 8:20 pm #79389znModeratorWell first off, i would think plenty of other personnel depts could indeed pick first round players just as good as those you listed, if they picked in the same high slots the Rams picked most of them in. I mean, Tavon was a miss as far as I’m concerned. GRob was a big miss.
Having said that sure, it was good personnel work. I think Snead is good. I give HIM better than a “C”. He might very well be an “A”.
Fisher failed to draft a topnotch Wide Receiver and he failed to find a good free agent WR. And his tight ends were not scary to opposing teams either. Its awfully hard to go deep in the playoffs with that kind of glaring weakness. It can be done, but its hard.
So what grade would YOU give Fisher? And would YOU hire him if you were a struggling team?
w
vWell, no, I stand by that about their first rounders…name someone who had 2 consecutive rookies of the year who are both later up for discussion as league mvp. That’s right up there. So I don’t think many teams have done that or its equivalent (I am not saying literally they have to have rookies of the year, just finding a way to indicate the significance of the picks). Then a franchise qb the 3rd time. And that’s picking 13th in one case and 10th in the other…and trading up for Goff.
Yes receiver was an issue. That’s one position though. And luckily for us, the one McVay/Snead fixed in one season.
I think it’s hard to grade Fisher because of the 15 of 64 whammy and the move. The 15 of 64 is the number of games from 2012-15 where they had both a veteran starting caliber qb and a viable OL…the lack of OL viability coming first from injuries, then from inexperience (to make up for the injuries), and then from both. As I keep saying, no one has ever given me examples of an offense that did well under that particular double condition. Probably because it’s not possible.
But would I hire him? Given other choices, no. Not that I think he’s bad. I think calling him BAD is a direct effect of fans angry at the losing who then don’t factor in the contexts. Yet tell me McVay would do as well as he is if he lost Whitworth, Saffold and Sullivan and then his qb was the equivalent of guys like Clemens, Hill, and Davis. Even Keenum, who was the best of that bunch, did not have a running game in 2016. When he had a running game and a relatively healthy OL in Minn, we saw what he could do. Anyway just as McVay would not do as well under those conditions, Fisher would have done better if he didn’t have to contend with those conditions.
But I actually never liked Fisher as a head coach. There were too many little things he did that bothered me. I like McVay/Phillips just fine.
BUT I am also on the side of doing historical analysis, for lack of a better term, and history says that those who are hardest on Fisher never account for the circumstances that worked against winning. And to be fair I was making a similar argument in 2007 against those who put the whole collapse of the offense on Bulger and not on the fact that their OL got massacred.
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This reply was modified 7 years ago by
zn.
December 24, 2017 at 1:41 am #79396wvParticipantBut I actually never liked Fisher as a head coach. There were too many little things he did that bothered me. I like McVay/Phillips just fine.
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Why didnt you like him?
w
vDecember 24, 2017 at 8:43 am #79398znModeratorWhy didnt you like him?
w
vWell things like sending out the players they got in the Washington trade to do the coin flip against Washington.
December 24, 2017 at 10:24 am #79401znModeratorWhy didnt you like him?
w
vWell things like sending out the players they got in the Washington trade to do the coin flip against Washington.
And.
This team is stocked with inherited talent. It just plain strikes me as denying the obvious to say otherwise.
Meanwhile if you have complaints about Fisher, I get that. But. Fair is fair. We have never seen a 1 year turnaround where the team DIDN’T have a lot of top inherited talent. And that’s the case here.
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December 24, 2017 at 11:10 am #79404
joemadParticipantif Bradford doesn’t get hurt in Carolina in 2013 and stays healthy, I think the Rams make the playoffs that season and Fisher is still with the Rams today. Up to that point, Bradford threw 14 TDs with only 4 picks in 2013……
In regards to coaching Cleveland, I’d take a healthy Marty S. any day of the week over Fisher. Sure Marty has had bad luck in the playoffs, but you have to win in the regular season to get to the playoffs. Fisher can’t do it when facing adversity.
Other than special team gimmicks, Fisher has never shown to have a plan B when things go south…
December 24, 2017 at 11:46 am #79405znModeratorFisher can’t do it when facing adversity.
I usually contest statements like that. It amounts to this. The “adversity” was having to play with compromised/injured OLs and #2 caliber qbs.
Name examples of any coaches who did it when facing that particular adversity.
No one btw ever has, most likely because there aren’t any. And quite probably there aren’t any because it’s not possible to do that.
Just IMO. Join us in the chat sometime! you only have 5 more opportunities this season.
December 26, 2017 at 10:02 am #79565joemadParticipantFisher can’t do it when facing adversity.
I usually contest statements like that. It amounts to this. The “adversity” was having to play with compromised/injured OLs and #2 caliber qbs.
Name examples of any coaches who did it when facing that particular adversity.
No one btw ever has, most likely because there aren’t any. And quite probably there aren’t any because it’s not possible to do that.
Just IMO. Join us in the chat sometime! you only have 5 more opportunities this season.
Adversity examples back up QB and linemen
2016 Dolphins Tannenhill Matt Moore QB combo behind 8 starting linemen
10 wins2016 Broncos
Manning Osweiler 8 starting linemen SB2016 Houston … Hoyer Weeden 8 different starting linemen 11 wins
2014 QBs Staton , Palmer,Lindley 9 different starting linemen 11-5
2012 49ers CK7 / Alex Smith behind 9 linemen in 2012 finished 11-5
1994 49ers Grbac replaced Young 11 starting linemen SB
I used to like Fisher but I got tired of the lack of discipline and penalties.
The tipping point for me was Hard Knocks. I was not impressed, the guy may have football knowledge, but he can’t implement … . He didn’t show me the he can communicate well in meetings or with people, he’s just not a good manager to lead a team to a high level of play.
BTW I really miss the forum to chat during games…
December 26, 2017 at 11:05 am #79566znModeratorAdversity examples back up QB and linemen
2016 Dolphins Tannenhill Matt Moore QB combo behind 8 starting linemen
10 wins2016 Broncos
Manning Osweiler 8 starting linemen SB2016 Houston … Hoyer Weeden 8 different starting linemen 11 wins
2014 QBs Staton , Palmer,Lindley 9 different starting linemen 11-5
2012 49ers CK7 / Alex Smith behind 9 linemen in 2012 finished 11-5
1994 49ers Grbac replaced Young 11 starting linemen SB
I used to like Fisher but I got tired of the lack of discipline and penalties.
The tipping point for me was Hard Knocks. I was not impressed, the guy may have football knowledge, but he can’t implement … . He didn’t show me the he can communicate well in meetings or with people, he’s just not a good manager to lead a team to a high level of play.
BTW I really miss the forum to chat during games…
No, sorry, your examples are not even remotely like what the Rams went through. And I might add, this issue pre-dates Fisher. In fact one reason I am so practiced at this discussion is that I have been having it since 2007, when the Rams OL got massively wrecked (to a really historic extent) yet some fans argued that the offense declined because of Bulger.
I have had this discussion a lot and I am very exact in what I mean. I always distinguish between a relatively healthy OL, with at most 1 or 2 replacements, and an OL damaged to the point where it loses effectiveness. That means extensive simultaneous OL injuries. For example, in the first half of 2012, they had 8 linemen playing 3 positions in 8 games (those positions being LOT, LOG, & OC). Wells went out and Turner slid over from guard, Saffold went out, and then they played Watkins, Ojinakka, Smith, Hunter, and Barksdale. That is an extensively injured OL.
In total, in the 64 games from 2012-2015, they had BOTH a starting caliber qb AND a relatively healthy & veteran OL in 15 of 64 games.
In terms of your examples, you;re making the mistake of not looking at who was out simultaneously. Just listing OL who missed starts does not count. You have to have extensive SIMULTANEOUS injuries for a series of games. Not some subs along the way during the season. That only makes sense. Teams usually have a relative degree of depth, and so a relatively healthy line can miss a starter here or there. But not 2 or more simultaneously for a series of games. That’s how I have always defined this, going back to 2007, and that’s what happened in 2007, and that’s what happened in the first half of 2012.
So looking at your list to see who fits what I was saying.
Also you got your qbs wrong. Houston 2016, for example, is Osweiller has 14 starts, though he is replaced in one, with Savage listed as 2 starts though really he plays in 3. Houston missed Brown at LOT for the 1st 4 games, and Clark slides over with Newton taking over at ROT. I wouldn;t count that as Rams-level extensively injured. The only game where they have more that that in terms of replacements is game 6.
If you think any of your examples contains stretches where they have extensive simultaneous OL injuries and are starting a back-up qb (the equivalent of Clemens, Hill, and Davis) point it out and I will check to see if it meets the criteria I use when discussing Rams OL injuries.
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December 26, 2017 at 12:10 pm #79567joemadParticipantLosing a QB and linemen during the season is a very common tale.
Those are specific examples on teams that salvaged seasons when Fisher never had the ability to do so. Those examples are off the top of my head, I’m sure there’s many more….
Like you said this predates Fisher, so what did he do??? Draft Tavon, sign Courtland Finnegan. Sure he drafted talent, but did he do with it? LOSE
Even Fisher’ strengths of Defense and Special teams are vastly improved without Fisher, and this is with an entirely different scheme on defense and without using Tavon as a punt decoy gimmick and going with Pharoah
McVay fixed the problems in 1 year, but MORE IMPORTANTLY McVay created a culture that is disciplined and in position to make plays to tackle to block to execute and catch. McVay’s team looks like a team that actually practices. Fisher’s looked liked a team from the Longest Yard movie
I’m tired of people defending Fisher for his lack of ability to create a winning culture. He’s not capable.
December 26, 2017 at 12:21 pm #79568znModeratorLosing a QB and linemen during the season is a very common tale.
And that is not what I am describing.
I know the common tale and this is not that.
It is extensive, simultaneous OL injuries and replacements for several games at a time.
None of your examples give us that.
Either way tell me this. Let’s say that at the start of the season, McVay lost Whitworth, Saffold, and Sullivan–all of them–for several games.
And let’s say his qb was Allen.
Does that offense do as well?
I once broke it down going back to 2006. From an older post:
I look at 4 categories
1. Games from 2006-2017 where Rams play either a back-up caliber #2 qb or a starting caliber qb, AND an extensively injured and/or very inexperienced OL: overall W/L record
2. Games from 2006-2017 where Rams play a back-up caliber #2 qb and a relatively healthy, intact and veteran OL: overall W/L record
3. Games from 2006-2017 where Rams play a rookie qb w/either a beat up line or a relatively healthy line (they’re all losses so it doesn’t matter): W/L record
4. Games from 2006-2017 where Rams play a starting caliber qb and a relatively healthy, intact and veteran OL: overall W/L recordCategory 1: 28/81 — 25.7% winning percentage
Category 2: 8/10 — 44% winning percentage
Category 3: 0/12 — 0% winning percentage
Category 4: 24/20/1 — 57.3% winning percentageNote: Goff even as a rookie wasn’t Berlin or Null, so that one comes with an asterisk. That is, just him being a rookie is not in itself the cause for the record
QBs in category 1: too numerous to mention.
QBs in category 2: Clemens 2013, Keenum 2016, both of whom went 4-5.
QBs in category 4: Bulger (last 6 games of 2006), Bradford (2010, 2nd half of 2012, 2013), Goff (2017)December 26, 2017 at 12:57 pm #79570
ZooeyModeratorLosing a QB and linemen during the season is a very common tale.
Those are specific examples on teams that salvaged seasons when Fisher never had the ability to do so. Those examples are off the top of my head, I’m sure there’s many more….
Like you said this predates Fisher, so what did he do??? Draft Tavon, sign Courtland Finnegan. Sure he drafted talent, but did he do with it? LOSE
Even Fisher’ strengths of Defense and Special teams are vastly improved without Fisher, and this is with an entirely different scheme on defense and without using Tavon as a punt decoy gimmick and going with Pharoah
McVay fixed the problems in 1 year, but MORE IMPORTANTLY McVay created a culture that is disciplined and in position to make plays to tackle to block to execute and catch. McVay’s team looks like a team that actually practices. Fisher’s looked liked a team from the Longest Yard movie
I’m tired of people defending Fisher for his lack of ability to create a winning culture. He’s not capable.
Yeah, I have noticed that the Rams tackle better this year. They did have a talented defense under Fisher, but man…dumb penalties and blown tackles….
That’s eyeballing it. I don’t have statistics. But this team is just better disciplined, and seem to be more of a “team,” although I don’t discount that winning has an effect on “team” spirit.
Fisher acquired talent. He does deserve credit for turning around the dearth of talent into a talented roster. But the guy was Moses. He led the Rams out of slavery, but couldn’t get them to the Promised Land.
McVay has completely changed the culture and brought the flipped the offense from life support to perhaps the best offense in the league.
Fisher deserves credit for acquiring much of the talent. But I don’t think ANYBODY believes he would have had the Rams at 11-4 right now, looking at a home game in the playoffs.
7-9 probably
December 26, 2017 at 1:08 pm #79571joemadParticipantTo your point if the Rams lost Sullivan Whitworth tough to win 11 but maybe not lose 12 like Fisher’s team did last year. Sure he wasn’t there to finish the season but if he’s taking the credit for this season’s roster let’s give him the credit for last season’s December loses….
But based on comments below McVay would bring “the best out of EVERYBODY” do you honestly believe Fisher did that?
To your point does McVay miss the playoffs if he inherited Bradford and SJAX and Spags D? Do you think he shores up WR by bring Britt, Tavon ?
I wonder what Vince Young is thinking today by seeing the success Foles and Case are having today. It’s no wonder that Bradford and Foles seriously considered retirement while playing for Fisher in STL.
WHAT DID FISHER DO TO SHORE UP HIS LINE????? WHAT DID HE DO TO MAKE HIS PLAYERS UP TO THEIR BEST, lead the league in penalties?
From Ram players today:
“”””I would like to say I can speak for the guys who have been here, and everything we went through,” linebacker Robert Quinn said (via the Orange County Register). “With McVay and [defensive coordinator] Wade [Phillips] leading this team, I don’t know what they did, but they just brought the best out of everybody, brought some new guys in and everybody rose up to the challenge.”
GOFF = “It’s just everything he’s done since he got here,” quarterback Jared Goff said. “From day one, it’s been so impressive. He hasn’t changed a bit. Same demeanor every day, and goes about his business the same way, and I think it rubs off on the players and rubs off on me for sure.”””””
December 26, 2017 at 2:44 pm #79576znModeratorJoe, I have never seen a team take OL hits like that and start a #2 caliber qb and win. Probably because it can’t be done. Even starting a #2 caliber qb usually means at best 50% wins. In fact the only #2 caliber qbs to win half their starts for the Rams are Martin and Keenum, and that’s going back years. There were some who did better than .500 when Dickerson was at RB and the OL was healthy, but that’s it. You add OL destruction to that and teams don’t win.
And you didn’t name any examples of what I described. Your examples don’t fit what I described.
What did Fisher do to shore up the line? They had a good line in 2013 when it was healthy, and in fact PFF rated it 13th. But then Long injured the same knee twice and Wells had a long series of freak infections and injuries that didn’t start until he signed with the Rams. They also brought in a series of budget FAs who never did anything before the Rams and then played well with the Rams–including Turner, Richardson, Smith, Williams, and Barksdale. (Like Blythe and Lucas in 2017.) Most of those were lost to free agency. He then also drafted several and signed some UDFAs from 2014-2015, 3 of which are still with the team, and 2 of which are starting.
The 2017 OL is the least injured OL the Rams have had since first 2010 and before that 1999.
December 26, 2017 at 4:42 pm #79579joemadParticipantWEEK 1 2016
49ers 28
RAMS 0I love Shannon Sharpe
December 26, 2017 at 7:58 pm #79584znModeratorYou may not like his coaching. Which is fine. But I can’t think of any teams that won under those conditions. So to me a fair assessment includes identifying that.
Either way, people are getting upset because he said he left the team in good shape. To me that’s just obvious and true, even though it was crass of him to say it. Who inherits 2 young candidates for league MVP plus a young clearcut franchise qb?
December 26, 2017 at 8:22 pm #79585InvaderRamModeratorWho inherits 2 young candidates for league MVP plus a young clearcut franchise qb?
yeah. he’s responsible for getting those guys among others. brockers and ogletree.
you may not like the guy. but he got some pretty important pieces to the puzzle. you gotta give him credit for that.
like i said before. his biggest problem was not taking seriously enough putting together a competent offensive staff. hiring boras did that guy in. hiring an offensive coordinator like shanny or mcvay? yeah. that woulda worked. but then they woulda eventually left for some head coaching position. this is much better. mcvay already is the head coach.
and mcvay had the foresight to hire an amazing defensive staff to handle that side of things. and he kept the best special teams coordinator in the league. so i look at wade and his staff vs the offensive staff that fisher cycled through during his tenure. mix that in with a little bit of luck. and there ya go.
December 26, 2017 at 8:31 pm #79586InvaderRamModeratorI love Shannon Sharpe
shannon said he’s a slightly above average head coach. i would agree with that. i don’t think there’s anything wrong with that statement.
with mcvay, they got possibly. we don’t know yet. possible they got a special head coach. and yeah. getting rid of fisher would be worth getting a special head coach. there’s nothing wrong with that.
but i wouldn’t say that fisher was a terrible head coach.
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