Feel the Bern- Sanders endorses Hildabeast.

Of course there are differences. On many issues. And they’re all major issues. To deny that is to bury one’s head in the proverbial sand.

bnw wrote:

BS. Show me anywhere Trump has disavowed what he has campaigned on to the extent that Sanders has by endorsing Hildabeast. Nothing partisan about it. It is fact. A partisan refuses to acknowledge factual information. That is exactly what Sanders supporters have done in this thread. Again regarding Sanders,

You mean he now believes Hildabeast has the judgement to be president?
He now believes she is progressive while being owned by Wall Street?
He now believes she won’t support the TPP?

My friend those are the facts. If Trump flaunts such hypocrisy I’ll unload on him for it too.

No, what it means is that he – regardless of his own political positions – has the same choice everyone else does: Clinton or Trump.

And in his estimation, Trump will be more regressive than Clinton.

bnw,

Any comments on my previous post? I’m particularly interested in your response regarding Trump’s tax proposals. And, I have to admit an error on my part. I said his tax policy would add an additional 10 trillion, according to economists. It’s actually closer to 12 trillion.

Also, from his website. He tells a baldfaced lie about business taxes, corporate taxes, when he talks in terms of business income. Taxation of businesses and corporations is on profits, not income. A massive, ginormous difference. His promise to make sure no one pays more than 15% on business income is absurd, given that no business has ever come within light years of that percentage. A typical business has a profit margin in the 3% range — or so they tell us — and the corporate rate of 35% applies to that, only. And that’s after deductions, writeoffs, special programs, incentives, grants and subsidies, etc. etc. kick in.

Here’s the relevant section, from his website:

The Trump Tax Plan Achieves These Goals

If you are single and earn less than $25,000, or married and jointly earn less than $50,000, you will not owe any income tax. That removes nearly 75 million households – over 50% – from the income tax rolls. They get a new one page form to send the IRS saying, “I win,” those who would otherwise owe income taxes will save an average of nearly $1,000 each.

All other Americans will get a simpler tax code with four brackets – 0%, 10%, 20% and 25% – instead of the current seven. This new tax code eliminates the marriage penalty and the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) while providing the lowest tax rate since before World War II.

No business of any size, from a Fortune 500 to a mom and pop shop to a freelancer living job to job, will pay more than 15% of their business income in taxes. This lower rate makes corporate inversions unnecessary by making America’s tax rate one of the best in the world.

No family will have to pay the death tax. You earned and saved that money for your family, not the government. You paid taxes on it when you earned it.

Also, note the massive tax cut for himself and his heirs.

Let me just be clear that I do not endorse Sanders’ endorsement.

But Sanders isn’t my hero whom I feel the need to protect.

I understand why he did it. That’s politics. I can afford to be more idealistic because I’m not a politician. He has to consider the real outcomes of real decisions, and make a choice based on those assessments. He got the best possible outcome he could. He raised a lot of issues and made them debatable where before his campaign, they were invisible in the mainstream. He moved the party platform to the left (fwiw), and he has grown more powerful in the senate personally which positions him better for continuing to fight for his principles.

Personally, I don’t know for sure that Trump is worse, though he certainly is riskier. I mean, we know what kind of crap we will get from President Clinton, but electing President Trump is kind of like sitting on a keg of powder and lighting it just to see where you will go. And for sure his SC nominations are going to be no bueno. In any event, I can see why Sanders thinks Clinton is the lesser of two evils, and more susceptible to influence from the movement he represents.

I am a bit disappointed that he endorsed her. But I see it as a calculated retreat to another position to wait for reinforcements rather than a betrayal.

I’m still voting for Stein (as of now).

waterfield wrote:

Curious: what does Jill Stein offer that my dry cleaner does not? They both have the exact same views on policies; Neither has held an elected office;and try as they might they have lost every election they’ve been in.

There is a point here.

—————
She wont sell out poor people for
Bankers, BigPharma, Big-Oil, and Mega-Corporate interests.
She would…help…the….POOR.

Thats why your dry cleaner, and jill stein are better
than crooked-Hillary and crooked-Donald.

It would be nice if she had experience. Its just not
a deal-breaker for those of us who cant stand
DNC policies cause they crush the weakest among us,
and destroy the biosphere….

Blah blah blah. We can all state one another’s positions now.
You can state mine, i can state yours.

w
v

It looks like a great plan to me.

Why? And, again, he’s lying to his supporters about how business taxes work, and estate taxes.

Ten Facts You Should Know About the Federal Estate Tax

Today, 99.8 percent of estates owe no estate tax at all, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation.[3] Only the estates of the wealthiest 0.2 percent of Americans — roughly 2 out of every 1,000 people who die — owe any estate tax. (See Figure 1.) This is because of the tax’s high exemption amount, which has jumped from $650,000 per person in 2001 to $5.43 million per person in 2015.

Are you in favor of balanced budgets? Want to pay down the debt? His tax plan would put us further into the red by nearly 12 trillion. And for what? So the already rich (including Trump himself) could pocket millions more and do with that what they always do? Hoard it.

Trickle down doesn’t work, bnw. It’s never worked. And Trump’s plan relies on trickle down working.

Trump’s plan removes over 50% of the households from paying the tax. That helps working people a great deal.

Trump’s tax plan helps Trump and people like him a hell of a lot more than it helps working people. As in, millions of dollars more per person in the millionaire and billionaire class. Why not just cut taxes on people in the working class? Why extend that to millionaires and billionaires? They’ve already gobbled up the vast majority of all tax cuts since 1964.

That’s a drop of 91% down to 25%, since that time. Working people have seen a tiny fraction of that drop and, obviously, since they don’t make but a tiny fraction as much to begin with, any tax cut for them is a fraction of a fraction as much in total dollars.

Trump is lying to his supporters and scamming them for his own personal benefit.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by Billy_T.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by Billy_T.

waterfield wrote:

Curious: what does Jill Stein offer that my dry cleaner does not? They both have the exact same views on policies; Neither has held an elected office;and try as they might they have lost every election they’ve been in.

There is a point here.

She got recruited to run for office because as a Harvard trained physician, she kept getting asked by various governmental agencies or people who wanted someone with health credentials to speak to the damage certain environmental policies were having on constituents.

So, unlike your dry cleaner, Jill Stein has been working with various government agencies for and against for YEARS, specifically with respect to the environment and the health effects of environmental policy.

I dunno why, waterfield, I’m sure it’s not on purpose, but I’d be less offended if you were openly misogynistic towards Dr Jill Stein than dismissive as so many liberals are toward those not part of the party apparatus. What’s complete horse manure, is that if your dry cleaner was running, you’d be defending their small business experience and community ties rather than using them as an example of how to dismiss an alternative candidate…

Mackeyser wrote:

waterfield wrote:

Curious: what does Jill Stein offer that my dry cleaner does not? They both have the exact same views on policies; Neither has held an elected office;and try as they might they have lost every election they’ve been in.

There is a point here.

She got recruited to run for office because as a Harvard trained physician, she kept getting asked by various governmental agencies or people who wanted someone with health credentials to speak to the damage certain environmental policies were having on constituents.

So, unlike your dry cleaner, Jill Stein has been working with various government agencies for and against for YEARS, specifically with respect to the environment and the health effects of environmental policy.

I dunno why, waterfield, I’m sure it’s not on purpose, but I’d be less offended if you were openly misogynistic towards Dr Jill Stein than dismissive as so many liberals are toward those not part of the party apparatus. What’s complete horse manure, is that if your dry cleaner was running, you’d be defending their small business experience and community ties rather than using them as an example of how to dismiss an alternative candidate…

The “experience” argument (one of the only 3 pro-Hillary arguments we ever hear), is one of those Partisan Arguments. I am pretty sure “experience” wasn’t really a factor for Clinton supporters back when, say, George HW Bush was running against Bill Clinton. It’s an argument of convenience, nothing more.

And I must say that I find it appalling that Clinton has been running for a year, and neither she nor her supporters ever point to her accomplishments as a reason to support her, or her policies. Where is the “She’ll be great for education, or health care, or working class jobs?”

Nope. She has experience, she has a uterus, and she’s not Trump. Those are the only arguments I have heard for her.

And Jill Stein has two of those things. And unlike Hillary, she actually has clearly defined principles rather than a political windsock and PR handlers.