EPS Homeostasis

This topic has 13 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 6 months ago by bnw.

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May 2, 2016 at 8:10 pm #43302

Mackeyser
Moderator

What is this?

Economic, Political and Social Homeostasis.

I was thinking about a number of things as I was thinking about why Bernie was striking a nerve with so many people across such a wide range of demographics as well as why his singular message, which actually is a harmonic message that at a higher order touches on so many other subjects, moved so many people.

Then I started thinking back to various civil rights movements and popular movements in systems that weren’t even capitalist or weren’t under democratic rule and the one thing I found was that…. I saw a pattern (it’s what I do)

Now, I dunno if this is early John Nash stuff or late John Nash stuff, so bear with me…

But what I see is that we essentially live in a closed system. Earth is closed. Our resources are limited. We find “growth” in discovery, innovation and efficiency. That applies to systems economically, politically and socially. However, the “growth” model espoused by pure capitalists can’t be infinite as they espouse. It simply cannot, by definition, not in a closed system.

So, when I looked at it and then when systems failed or when there were movements, either physical movements of people or social or political movements or movements of capital, ultimately it came down to balance.

Homestasis. The “system” is always trying to be in balance. Currently, the powers that be are trying to maintain a pyramid upside down with massive wealth, political capital and social dynamic at the top. That is inherently unstable.

Thus, no matter how much they seek to do this, it can’t and won’t last forever. The “system” won’t allow it.

I find this fascinating. I found a single paper on it written in 1956 on economic homeostasis and I’ll post some further more formalized thoughts on it as I get the time to work through them.

I just find it fascinating that when I first thought of it that there was so little on the subject when it seems like such an obvious thing. Then again, there is such a massive interest in perpetuating the infinite growth agenda that I’m not really surprised.

Unfortunately, the wrinkle now is that climate change is actually posing a far more dangerous threat than even climate change proponents may realize. That is because it simply cannot be understated that at this moment, the level of solar output is at at 300 year low and the carbon in the atmosphere exceeds 450ppm, in the next 20-30 years as the solar output increases, even those modest increases with this amount of carbon will see MASSIVE effects. We won’t need to wait two hundred years. We’re going to see this disaster in our lifetimes unless radical change happens now. But it won’t.

Hopefully homeostasis will move those it needs to move radically enough such that we save the planet in time, cuz what’s coming won’t be savable much longer…

Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

May 2, 2016 at 8:43 pm #43305

bnw
Blocked

Solar increase over the next 20-30 years? I’d bet against it. At least the primary contribution of the sun to the warming and cooling of the earth was acknowledged. Kudos for that.

The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

Sprinkles are for winners.

May 3, 2016 at 1:59 am #43316

Mackeyser
Moderator

There’s a known solar cycle. It’s periodic over 300 years. Around 1700 was the last nadir and during that time, prior to the Industrial Revolution, there was substantially less carbon in the atmosphere and the result was the Thames froze over and they held Frost Faires in London. It was considered a “mini-Ice Age”.

This cycle is irrefutable and will continue. We have the tools to accurately measure solar output and we definitely are currently AT the solar output nadir. HOWEVER, we currently are over 450ppm carbon in the atmosphere.

Thus, in the next 20-30 years, there will be a marked AND STEADY increase in solar output.

Here’s what needs to be understood. We’ve had the 15 contiguous hottest years on record WHILE THE SUN WAS PUTTING OUT LESS AND LESS ENERGY. The sun was in effect “turning the burner down” and the earth kept getting hotter.

Now, imagine systemically what’s going to happen systemically now that the sun is going to steadily output increasingly more energy year over year over the next 300 years?

We’re already at 450ppm carbon and climbing, to say nothing of methane content and other greenhouse gases. We’ve gotten hotter as the sun was giving us a break. Well… break’s over. Now, the heat’s gonna start coming back. Thus, rather than a percent or two loss in solar output, we’re likely to see a percent or two gain. Over the next 20-30 years, even if we only see 5% increased solar output… wow. Just…wow.

I’m not even sure how to describe the scale of what that will look like. Disaster movie, maybe?

Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

May 3, 2016 at 3:02 am #43323

Eternal Ramnation
Participant

This whole series is good, this one has a real clear explanation of how the determination that human actions are responsible for the rise in CO2 and goes into solar cycle starting at about 22 minutes in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQMOOw0Hx04

May 3, 2016 at 9:20 am #43328

bnw
Blocked

Mackeyser wrote:

Here’s what needs to be understood. We’ve had the 15 contiguous hottest years on record WHILE THE SUN WAS PUTTING OUT LESS AND LESS ENERGY.

Not true. The earth has cooled. The data gathered and used has always been flawed once there became an agenda to be followed and an ideology to be defended. Hockey stick, much?

Periods of global warming have always been periods of prosperity for mankind. Global cooling is what is to be feared. Always has been. History proves it. That elevation of CO2 and other so called greenhouse gases by your logic is what staves off the next ice age. That is a good thing.

The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

Sprinkles are for winners.

May 3, 2016 at 11:26 am #43337

Zooey
Moderator

Yeah, this in part is why I’ve completely lost patience with the “lesser of two evils” argument. There isn’t time for whatever Hillary’s plan is – probably a reduction in the level of GROWTH in greenhouse gasses.

I read somewhere that MIT said we had to slam the brakes on greenhouse gasses basically right now in order to have a chance.

This is not time to elect a Great Incrementer.

May 3, 2016 at 12:25 pm #43338

nittany ram
Moderator

Zooey wrote:

Yeah, this in part is why I’ve completely lost patience with the “lesser of two evils” argument. There isn’t time for whatever Hillary’s plan is – probably a reduction in the level of GROWTH in greenhouse gasses.

I read somewhere that MIT said we had to slam the brakes on greenhouse gasses basically right now in order to have a chance.

This is not time to elect a Great Incrementer.

I agree with all of that and what Mac says, but unfortunately noone is listening. People see and hear reports like that and they don’t necessarily disbelieve it but they won’t give it the proper attention it warrants until it impacts them personally in a major way. Nobody wants to be inconvenienced and plastic bags and bottled water are so convenient.
A year or so ago a report came out that there has been a 50% decline in the world’s wildlife populations in just the last 40 years. Half the world’s wildlife gone in just 40 years?! You’d think that sort of news would garner a lot of media attention and mobilize nations to make efforts to reverse that trend but it was a mere footnote for most news outlets. People acknowledge that a global environmental crisis exists but nothing will be done until it’s too late because they can’t believe or don’t want to believe the predictions on how bad it is gonna be. And it will be bad.

May 3, 2016 at 1:01 pm #43339

PA Ram
Participant

I have zero faith this will be fixed.

There is too much money and power opposing any solution.

There is something to be said for civilizations only advancing so far before they wipe themselves out. I think we’re watching that.

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

May 3, 2016 at 2:34 pm #43346

Zooey
Moderator

It is scary, actually. I have two kids that are likely to live through some catastrophic events. We are of an age where we will probably live to see only the beginning of the…”re-ordering” of life on the planet. And I agree, the grip of the status quo is iron. I can’t get students to set aside their cellphones for an entire class period. There is no way people are going to give up modern conveniences in order to maybe save the planet.

It looks like the novel “Feed” is more prescient than the author intended.

May 4, 2016 at 12:25 am #43365

Mackeyser
Moderator

It’s gonna be like a Tsunami.

The water goes out and people think the water’s going down… nope.

Then the water rushes in and at first…it’s not a massive 100 foot wave so no one panics… until they realize that they are knee deep and the water that continues to come is coming wicked fast and there’s no where to hide.

By then, this will be all that’s left to say:

Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

May 4, 2016 at 10:35 am #43394

wv
Participant

Mackeyser wrote:

It’s gonna be like a Tsunami.

The water goes out and people think the water’s going down… nope.

Then the water rushes in and at first…it’s not a massive 100 foot wave so no one panics… until they realize that they are knee deep and the water that continues to come is coming wicked fast and there’s no where to hide.

By then, this will be all that’s left to say:

——————-
Mack can you address what bnw had to say in his post?

I mean, you are preaching to the choir with the rest of us.
Its people who share bnw’s ideas that should be the target
audience. Can there be any meaningful communication between
you and him on this subject?

He says the ‘earth has cooled’. Has it?

w
v

May 4, 2016 at 10:58 am #43395
nittany ram
Moderator
wv wrote:

Mackeyser wrote:

It’s gonna be like a Tsunami.

The water goes out and people think the water’s going down… nope.

Then the water rushes in and at first…it’s not a massive 100 foot wave so no one panics… until they realize that they are knee deep and the water that continues to come is coming wicked fast and there’s no where to hide.

By then, this will be all that’s left to say:

——————-
Mack can you address what bnw had to say in his post?

I mean, you are preaching to the choir with the rest of us.
Its people who share bnw’s ideas that should be the target
audience. Can there be any meaningful communication between
you and him on this subject?

He says the ‘earth has cooled’. Has it?

w
v

Not Mac but the earth is warming…

http://m.earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/GISSTemperature/giss_temperature2.php

http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-cooling-intermediate.htm
- This reply was modified 8 years, 6 months ago by nittany ram.
May 4, 2016 at 2:09 pm #43402

Zooey
Moderator

wv wrote:

——————-
Mack can you address what bnw had to say in his post?

I mean, you are preaching to the choir with the rest of us.
Its people who share bnw’s ideas that should be the target
audience. Can there be any meaningful communication between
you and him on this subject?

He says the ‘earth has cooled’. Has it?

w
v

Why don’t you ask bnw for his evidence?

May 4, 2016 at 3:06 pm #43406
bnw
Blocked
wv wrote:

——————-
Mack can you address what bnw had to say in his post?

I mean, you are preaching to the choir with the rest of us.
Its people who share bnw’s ideas that should be the target
audience. Can there be any meaningful communication between
you and him on this subject?

He says the ‘earth has cooled’. Has it?

w
v

Yes since 1998 it has cooled. Consistently. At the very time the global warming alarmists assured everyone that warming was to continue and accelerate. So incomplete modeling with further corrupted data was foisted upon the public as the alarmists colluded to further fudge, cherry pick or ignore data that worked against their global warming agenda. Since they’ve been discredited for 15 years they change the mantra to climate change. Now the issue is feedback loops within the earth that have somehow stalled, no actually reversed the temperature trend they colluded to maintain. But they assure us that these feedback loops can only continue this for a little longer before the system fails and accelerating global temps will be the result. Problem is this latest feedback loops hypothesis relies upon modeling based upon a terribly flawed equation as discovered by the world’s foremost authority on temperature feedbacks Prof. Ray Bates of Dublin, Ireland. He disputes the amplifying mechanisms and that the feedbacks do not work the way the models say. Thus the 3 deg C increase is in reality at most 1 deg C which means no global warming.

Solar radiation reaching earth is what drives the climate. Yes it is that obvious but remains untaxable rendering it useless to those with a taxation and power grabbing agenda.
- This reply was modified 8 years, 6 months ago by bnw.
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

Sprinkles are for winners.
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