Eliz. Warren

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  • September 25, 2019 at 8:37 am #105636
    wv
    Participant

    September 25, 2019 at 10:17 am #105640
    Zooey
    Moderator

    That was a purty good argument.

    September 25, 2019 at 11:24 am #105645
    Billy_T
    Participant

    It was. I agree with the “it’s culture, not policy or ideology.” Shouldn’t be that way at all. But I think that’s how Americans vote.

    First off, the vast majority of people who do vote — and our turnout rates are abysmal — choose their team early in their adult lives and stay with them, through thick or thin. Team D or Team R. Then you have a much, much smaller group that can be persuaded one way or another . . . and that group is mostly impacted by culture signalling, but some do think in terms of policy.

    Lastly, you have a group of no-voters who could be persuaded by great policies and an inspiring vision, but neither party risks those, typically. Instead, they keep things dumbed down and lizard-brained. The Dems, at times, will trot out a wonky candidate, without the vision thing, or any charisma, and they inevitably lose to the usual scare tactics of the GOP. I may be forgetting a candidate here or there, but I think RFK was the last Dem who hit the trifecta: policies, vision and charisma. I have no doubt that if he hadn’t been shot, he would have won the presidency.

    Warren? She’s the best of the bunch after Sanders, IMO — relative to the other candidates. The DNC will do everything it can to stop Bernie, so if they hitch their wagon to Warren, it will at least be an improvement over the usual centrist. But I differ from Ball in this. I think she’ll defeat Trump, unless the Dems botch the Impeachment hearings. Counter to the conventional wisdom, impeachment didn’t hurt the GOP last time. People forget that they won the next election and held Congress for most of the next eight years.

    If that was the “price” paid for impeaching Clinton, I think any party would take that.

    September 25, 2019 at 3:35 pm #105657
    Zooey
    Moderator

    She could beat Trump…because so many voters just don’t like the chaos of Trump. They would prefer a wonk to a bull in a china shop.

    But Ball is right…she fits the profile of a long list of Democrat losers, and she COULD lose at the end of the campaign because she’s NOT going to get the passionate turnout the Dems need from POC and the youth vote. Those people will come out for revolution, but not for policy papers. At least not in the same numbers.

    September 25, 2019 at 4:28 pm #105661
    wv
    Participant
    Zooey wrote:

    She could beat Trump…because so many voters just don’t like the chaos of Trump. They would prefer a wonk to a bull in a china shop.

    But Ball is right…she fits the profile of a long list of Democrat losers, and she COULD lose at the end of the campaign because she’s NOT going to get the passionate turnout the Dems need from POC and the youth vote. Those people will come out for revolution, but not for policy papers. At least not in the same numbers.

    ================

    I agree, she could beat Trump. Trump could beat her. It will be close whether the Dems go with Bernie or Biden or Warren. All four have their bases and its hard to say whats gonna happen.

    Ball is a diehard Bernie supporter so she tends to ‘see’ things that paint Bernie in the best light, etc, blah blah…

    What Ball didnt mention was how the VP choice could swing things one way or another. In a razor close election, one would think the VP choice would be critical. I would say a Bernie/Warren ticket with Bernie at the top would be…interesting. Where would the Centrists go? They would be done-triangulated for a change 🙂

    Then again maybe a more viable ticket would be Bernie and a Centrist as VP. I dunno.

    I used to devote more brain-energy to the horse-race aspect of the corporotacracy but since I fell into the pit-of-hopeless-despair, I dont really keep up on the electoral-window-dressing anymore. I mean, the Ring-of-Power is on Sauron’s finger, shadow has fallen over the Land, the shire is in ashes, the Elves have sailed away, the Trees are burnt, the Nazgul-birds have eaten all the puppies, and we are voting on whether a Mordor Orc, an Uruk-hai, or a Cave Troll should be makin the prezidential tweets for the next four seasons.

    w
    v

    September 25, 2019 at 5:52 pm #105664
    Zooey
    Moderator

    I do not want a Sanders Warren ticket. One of them should stay in the Senate which is at least as important as the White house. And VPs just go to funerals. That’s a waste of a progressive senator.

    I like Castro as VP.

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