down on Fisher…the critics thread

[zn]

Have at it.

Where I am at right now, I defend him, and I like the Goff pick, and I like their prospects.

Others? Not so much.

By temperament we’re not a “board war” board but consider this an informal poll. Everyone gets a voice. What’s yer beef?

[Mackeyser]

I’ll start by saying that I’ll spend much more time and space tomorrow, but it essentially comes down to what we know about the offense, that we know its limitations, that we know Groh isn’t fundamentally changing the offense, that they are repeating the same “lack of competition” mistake they made with Foles and nothing done so far changes the underlying dynamics of why the offense so drastically performed so poorly.

The problems were systemic and still are.

Fisher wants to say they were a few plays from being 10-6. Okay, but they were also a few plays from being 4-12. Several of those wins came on close plays where the OTHER team could say the very same thing. He wants to play the “what if” game as if he could change a few plays and nothing else changes except the final result. Well Heisenberg’s Observer Principle and 3 Back to the Future movies ought to be proof enough that that’s not how it works!

I’ll be more specific later, but that’s a primer…

Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

[nittany ram]

I don’t consider myself a Fisher defender. On the other hand I’m not anti-Fisher either. After 4 years you’d think I’d have a firm opinion on him one way or the other. But I don’t. After 4 years I’m still in ‘wait and see’ mode and I think the majority of Rams fans are as well.

[canadaram]

nittany ram wrote:

I don’t consider myself a Fisher defender. On the other hand I’m not anti-Fisher either. After 4 years you’d think I’d have a firm opinion on him one way or the other. But I don’t. After 4 years I’m still in ‘wait and see’ mode and I think the majority of Rams fans are as well.

You said what I think. Except that I didn’t know that’s what I was thinking until I thought about it. So yeah, that’s how I feel about Fisher too.

I totally get where Mack is coming from about the offense. Having said that, I am encouraged by how some of the young guys developed on the offensive line last year. Maybe it leads to some improvements to the overall offense. Maybe Mack is right, and the offensive problems are much more deeply rooted than who is lining up on that side of the ball. Beats me, ‘wait and see.’

[Eternal Ramnation]

I don’t like him at all never have but I am rooting for him all the same. I like the trade and the picks. The window on this defense is closing and it’s not the same D as last year anyway. Long ,JL, Jenkins and McLeod four starters are gone. Quinn didn’t play much at all last season nor Ogletree so if last years team truly was a QB away from the playoffs this ain’t last year’s team. Positives are Goff can get through his progressions and is quick minded where Foles was generally lost a large part of the season.The OL can only get better and Gurley will be all the way back this season.

[sdram]

Fisher – I’ve always kept him at arms length. But I gotta say, I’m pretty impressed with the player acquisition strategies and particularly these last two offseasons. Snisher keeps punching back in my mind. He tries, fails, and comes back and tries harder having just been slapped in the face by his own hand.

And, the NFC West has been no cakewalk the past 4 seasons. I find myself rooting for him to succeed – maybe year 5? The schedule looks daunting. It’s their annual challenge really. If the OL can develop into an above average unit, they have a great shot at being above 500 even with a rookie QB and a shaky kicker.

[wv]

Well, he’s been playing a ton of young players, and he’s had
lots of key injuries, and his starting QB has blown out his knee twice.

But even if things had gone well for him, i wonder about the ceiling
of his teams. If Bradford hadn’t gotten hurt, maybe they win ten games instead of seven. Ten is not reflective of an elite team.

Can Fisher build a team as good as Denver or Seattle or New England?

I dunno. I have doubts.

w
v

[Mackeyser]

Ah, stuff’s come up, so I’m left leaving another tidbit and teasing you all…

Fisher’s sticking with his quasi-WCO… which has never worked in this division. Why? Athletic LBs. It worked in the 80s because the purpose of the WCO is to horizontally stretch the field. What defeats the horizontal stretch? Athletic LBs who can run. What does this division have in abundance? Athletic LBs who can run.

Think about it. Even New Orleans with Drew Brees, who NO ONE is saying is a lesser QB than Goff, has struggled against the defenses of the NFC West in a very mature Gulf Coast WCO (Sean Payton’s variant). So, what chance is the rookie Goff going to have against the NFC West with an immature and incomplete WCO variant?

What’s worse, they’ve drafted PERFECTLY if they were going to implement the Pittsburgh variant of the Earhardt Perkins offense (another reason why Wentz was the perfect fit, btw). From the offensive linemen to the TEs, to the big WRs to Tavon Austin to Gurley who’s not only a fast power back who can be an exceptional receiver… everything was drafted as if from the Pitt FO.

So, even before I type the whole thing out, here’s the tl;dr, Goff should be fine in a WCO, but he’s going to a quasi-WCO that doesn’t work and doesn’t put the QB or eligible receivers in positions to succeed. Couple that with a bevy of rookie WRs/TEs and this offense not only isn’t set to be productive in the near term, unless there are exceptional people at all of the skill positions, not just QB, it’s not set up to be productive in the long term.

Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

[bnw]

Rams were dead last in passing last season. Should do better this season perhaps in the high teens? This year should be fun and finally 9-7 or better. 2017 and 18 watch out. This Rams team will be elite. Because I say so.

The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

Sprinkles are for winners.

[bnw]

Mackeyser wrote:

Ah, stuff’s come up, so I’m left leaving another tidbit and teasing you all…

Fisher’s sticking with his quasi-WCO… which has never worked in this division. Why? Athletic LBs. It worked in the 80s because the purpose of the WCO is to horizontally stretch the field. What defeats the horizontal stretch? Athletic LBs who can run. What does this division have in abundance? Athletic LBs who can run.

Think about it. Even New Orleans with Drew Brees, who NO ONE is saying is a lesser QB than Goff, has struggled against the defenses of the NFC West in a very mature Gulf Coast WCO (Sean Payton’s variant). So, what chance is the rookie Goff going to have against the NFC West with an immature and incomplete WCO variant?

What’s worse, they’ve drafted PERFECTLY if they were going to implement the Pittsburgh variant of the Earhardt Perkins offense (another reason why Wentz was the perfect fit, btw). From the offensive linemen to the TEs, to the big WRs to Tavon Austin to Gurley who’s not only a fast power back who can be an exceptional receiver… everything was drafted as if from the Pitt FO.

So, even before I type the whole thing out, here’s the tl;dr, Goff should be fine in a WCO, but he’s going to a quasi-WCO that doesn’t work and doesn’t put the QB or eligible receivers in positions to succeed. Couple that with a bevy of rookie WRs/TEs and this offense not only isn’t set to be productive in the near term, unless there are exceptional people at all of the skill positions, not just QB, it’s not set up to be productive in the long term.

Nothing quasi-WCO about it. Rams are in LA now. That is as West Coast as it gets.

The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

Sprinkles are for winners.

[Mackeyser]

9-7 or better with a rookie QB and the 3rd toughest schedule in the NFL?

m’okay…

The examples of rookies having better records have to be taken in context. Schaub and Luck went to the AFC South. Roethlisberger went to the AFC North when the division was in chaos. Flacco went to the Ravens when they literally had everything, but a QB including a historically great defense and an exceptional running game and one of the best OLs in the game at that time.

NO QB has ever been dropped into a situation like this and succeeded. None. Ever.

Now, there’s a first time for everything, but for anyone to cite previous guys and not take into account their very different situations (i.e. none of them had this meatgrinder of a schedule or lack of WRs/TEs or broken system) well, that just isn’t comparing apples to apples.

Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

[bnw]

I prefer to look at the positives such as a dominating defense should Quinn return to form and a premier RB in Gurley to take considerable pressure off the rookie QB who should be able to throw down field.

The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

Sprinkles are for winners.

[Mackeyser]

It’s fine to look at the positives.

However, it’s also a fact that no QB has come into a situation like THIS with THIS difficult a schedule and been successful.

I’ll root just as hard as everyone else.

I’m just not setting my expectations on an unrealistic deep playoff run when there’s just nothing to justify that.

Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

[Eternal Ramnation]

I think it’s a mistake to assume this is a stout D when we have lost 4 starters and very little depth at LB or even DE for that matter. They will need a shit ton of points to be competitive this year.

[zn]

Eternal Ramnation wrote:

I think it’s a mistake to assume this is a stout D when we have lost 4 starters and very little depth at LB or even DE for that matter. They will need a shit ton of points to be competitive this year.

CB: ? Johnson …Gaines Roberson Joyner + ?
FS: ? McDonald …Randolph (Joyner) Davis Bryant Alexander
Barron Ogletree Ayers … Lynch Hager + etc.
Quinn, Sims Donald/Brockers/Westrooks Hayes, Coples … Lonacre Worthington

No team can withstand a number of key injuries to a key unit.

But, the DL is set up to be at least as good as it was to start out last year, or better. No one really knows about LB depth. Ogletree will be better than JL in some ways, but we don’t know about his overall game at MLB. GW has made mistakes in the past (like in Washington) by overestimating what he had at MLB, so who knows.

For all we know they do have depth in the secondary. After all in 2013 no one predicted we would miss McCleod. They do have candidates though and those candidates have the same coaches who made something out of McCleod.

I would not say this defense is set to be elite…too many questions right now. But, it looks better to me than any pre-Fisher defense we have seen going back to 2003. So I think it would take massive injuries of the kind no team can withstand to really harm its chances.

…

[bnw]

Mackeyser wrote:

It’s fine to look at the positives.

However, it’s also a fact that no QB has come into a situation like THIS with THIS difficult a schedule and been successful.

I’ll root just as hard as everyone else.

I’m just not setting my expectations on an unrealistic deep playoff run when there’s just nothing to justify that.

I said 9-7 or better. With a decent QB the Rams could have been undefeated in their division last season. The deep playoff run is all yours not mine.

The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

Sprinkles are for winners.

[Author]

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