Democrats should get "centered"

I have a feeling you would tell FDR he needed to move to the “center”.

…did you? 🙂

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nittany ram wrote:

I can’t read the article but they already are centrist. They’ve been that way for quite awhile. Their republican-lite centrist policies helped create Trump.

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Well Billy would say the midpoint has been dragged so far to the right over the last thirty years that ‘centrists’ now are essentially ye-olde-republicans.

At any rate I’ve been watchin a lot of Fox-Newz Utubes lately. I wanted to see what the “Right” is up to. Its been quite an experience. I remember watching the original Planet of the Apes, and i remember the director did a good job of making the viewer feel trapped and surrounded by crazy-brutal-ignorant-superstitious powerful Apes. The Madhouse scene was the culmination of the pressure.

And thats prettymuch how I feel watching Fox-News. Just like that. Exactly like that.

The Dem-MSM (NPR, MSNBC, etc) is also a madhouse. Its hard for me to imagine the Dem-Madhouse moving to the left. I dont think Waterfield has anything to worry about.

But we’ll see. My guess is some progressives will get elected but for the most part the same ole sorry ass money-and-power will continue to aim the ship toward the iceburg.

Its a mad-ship-of-fools.

The evil-doers at Fox are better at what they do, btw, than the evil-doers on the Dem-MSM. They pound away at Immigration, Crime, Personal Responsibility, ‘COMMUNISM’, ‘Socialism’, Muslims, Terrorists, Deep-State, Guns, Police, the Flag, Apple Pie, Jesus, Iran, Venezuela, Clintons, Obama…

On MSNBC/NPR/PBS its…Trump…Russia.

We’ll see what happens.
I’ll be doing my part for Trump by voting Green again. 🙂

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waterfield wrote:

We likely have separate goals. Mine is to take back a Congress and Presidency that has done more harm and permanent damage to individual rights than any before-and in such a short time. It is my belief that the only way to do that is to get the marginal Trump voters over back to the democratic side. The more to the far left, progressive, whatever you call it, we go the more we insure we can’t get them back. However, if you don’t believe that the present majority in Congress and Trump are all that dangerous then fine-I can’t and won’t try and buy into a debate.

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Well yes, he’s beyond words. And he got there in large part, because of the Democrats. All those ‘centrist-dems’ who voted for NAFTA, etc.

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Zooey wrote:

zn wrote:

waterfield wrote:

The more to the far left, progressive, whatever you call it, we go the more we insure we can’t get them back

I think the opposite is true.

That is what I was going to say. Those marginal Trump voters were attracted to Trump because of the economic populism aspect of his campaign rather than the racist, nationalistic, and anti-establishment aspects of his campaign. They aren’t very comfortable with the latter aspects of Trump, and that is what makes them “marginal supporters.”

The progressive wing of the Democrat party has more to offer those marginal supporters than the mainstream Democrats do. Economically, mainstream Democrats are conservative. They are not aggressive supporters of unions, increased wages, and universal healthcare. They are not offering identifiable solutions to the problems ordinary Americans are dealing with. Some of those marginal supporters of Trump may be skeptical of government solutions to social problems, but the pressure of those problems has been building for some time, and I think a lot of people are starting to take a look around. I believe a number of people are taking a second look at universal health care, among other issues, and it is the progressives who are talking about these solutions. I seriously do not believe mainstream Democrats have anything to offer those marginal Trumps supporters except “We aren’t Trump. Russia, Russia, Russia.” What message do they have for those supporters that is going to make them change their vote?

Also, I think there is a bigger key to this election than picking off Trump voters. It’s just increasing voter turnout all the way around. The more women and minorities that can be motivated to vote, the more power we can strip away from the Monster.

Meanwhile, I can’t conceal my anxiety about the next few months. If Trump and the GOP get away with appointing a radical judge, and retain control of Congress, it is Game, Set, and Match.

We would truly then be dependent 100% on Mueller, and that is not an avenue I’ve ever counted on. And I think that if they get a judge appointed, it may not matter what Mueller has anyway.

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Well they are ‘gonna’ get their judge. Thats a given. Maybe more than one, btw, before all is said and done. (thanku Dems for giving us Hillary)

But can they retain Congress. Damn. We’ll see.

So much of the despair is because of the corporate-media. How can progressive options be evaluated when everything is filtered through anti-progressive, corporate-media. Same ole, same ole…

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Another strange dynamic in play for the last few decades:

The Republican Party seems to actually fear its “base.” With exceptions, it tends to do what its base screams for, and with urgency.

The Dems, OTOH, strike me as holding their own base in contempt at times, and they haven’t acted with urgency since the 1960s. They certainly don’t fear them, and they sometimes openly mock them. I think it’s safe to say the distance between Dems in office and the Dem rank and file is a great deal larger than any gap between Republicans.

This also helps Republicans win and keeps would-be Dem voters home.

Sanders’ wing of the party terrifies moderate Dems. Here’s how they plan to stop it.
Party members and fundraisers gathered for an invitation-only event to figure out how to counteract the rising progressive movement.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/sanders-wing-party-terrifies-moderate-dems-here-s-how-they-n893381

COLUMBUS, Ohio — If Bernie Sanders is leading a leftist political revolt, then a summit here of moderate Democrats might be the start of a counterrevolution.

While the energy and momentum is with progressives these days — the victory of rising star Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez in New York, buzz about Democratic Socialism and the spread of the “Abolish Ice!” movement are a few recent examples — moderates are warning that ignoring them will lead the party to disaster in the midterm elections and the 2020 presidential contest.

That anxiety has largely been kept to a whisper among the party’s moderates and big donors, with some of the major fundraisers pressing operatives on what can be done to stop the Vermonter if he runs for the White House again.

But the first-ever “Opportunity 2020” convention, organized here last week by Third Way, a moderate Democratic think tank, gave middle-of-the-road party members a safe space to come together and voice their concerns.

“The only narrative that has been articulated in the Democratic Party over the past two years is the one from the left,” former Delaware Gov. Jack Markell told NBC News.

“I think we need a debate within the party,” he added. “Frankly, it would have been better to start the conversation earlier.”

Pragmatism may be a tougher sell in the Donald Trump-era, but with the 2020 presidential race just around the corner, moderate Democrats know they are running out of time to reassert themselves.

The gathering here was just that — an effort to offer an attractive alternative to the rising Sanders-style populist left in the upcoming presidential race. Where progressives see a rare opportunity to capitalize on an energized Democratic base, moderates see a better chance to win over Republicans turned off by Trump.

The fact that a billionaire real estate developer, Winston Fisher, co-cohosted the event and addressed attendees twice underscored that this group is not interested in the class warfare vilifying the “millionaires and billionaires” found in Sanders’ stump speech.

“You’re not going to make me hate somebody just because they’re rich. I want to be rich!” Rep. Tim Ryan, D-Ohio, a potential presidential candidate, said Friday to laughs.

The invitation-only gathering brought together about 250 Democratic insiders from key swing states. Third Way unveiled the results of focus groups and polling that it says shows Americans are more receptive to an economic message built on “opportunity” rather than the left’s message about inequality.

“Once again, the time has come to mend, but not end, capitalism for a new era,” said Third Way President Jon Cowan.

For the left, Third Way represents the Wall Street-wing of the party and everything wrong with the donor-driven wet blanketism they’ve been trying exorcise since 2016. Thom Hartmann, a liberal talk radio host and Sanders friend, once called the group’s warning about Sanders “probably the most stupid thing I’ve ever heard,” before ticking through all the investment bankers on Third Way’s board.

But some elected officials in relatively conservative areas say progressives are clueless about what their agenda would mean for Democrats outside major cities and the coasts.

“We will be a permanent minority party in this country,” said Iowa state Sen. Jeff Danielson, a firefighter who represents an area that saw one of the biggest swings from Barack Obama to Trump during the 2016 election.

Single-payer, government-run health care may be a popular party plank in New York City, where Ocascio-Cortez, a Democratic Socialist, recently won a high-profile primary, Danielson said, adding, “But it does not work in the rest of America … and I’m tired of losing.”

Moderates said they feel they’re being drowned out by louder voices on the left.

Rep. Cheri Bustos, D-Ill., a member of House Democratic leadership who represents a district Trump won, invoked Richard Nixon’s “silent majority.”

“If you look throughout the heartland, there’s a silent majority who just wants normalcy. Who wants to see that people are going out to Washington to fight for them in a civil way and get something done,” she told reporters.

“There’s a lot of people that just don’t really like protests and don’t like yelling and screaming,” she added.

And they worry the angry left will cost Democrats a rare chance to win over those kind of voters, including Republicans who no longer want to part of Trump’s GOP.

“Republicans have chosen the far-right, which means that they have ceded a good portion of the middle of the road,” said former New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu, who is considering a presidential run. “The Democrats, in my opinion, would make a big mistake if they decide to run a base election and just say, ‘Our base is bigger than your base.'”

With much of the recent policy innovation on the Democratic side been happening on the left, the “Opportunity Agenda” unveiled here tries to equip moderates with their own big ideas.

Some of the key initiatives are a massive apprenticeship program to train workers, a privatized employer-funded universal pension that would supplement Social Security and an overhaul of unemployment insurance to include skills training. Other proposals included a “small business bill of rights” and the creation of a “BoomerCorps” — like the volunteer AmericaCorps for seniors.

Meanwhile, they say the progressive agenda is out of date. They dismiss, for instance, a federal jobs guarantee as a rehash of the New Deal.

“Our ideas must be bold, but they must also fit the age we are in,” Cowan said. “Big isn’t enough. If it’s bold and old — it’s simply old.”

Matt Bennett, Third Way’s senior vice president for public affairs, acknowledges that Sanders “had a big head start.”

Many of the party’s biggest stars like — Sens. Kamala Harris of California, Kirsten Gillibrand of New York and Cory Booker of New Jersey —have already signed on to Sanders-backed policies like single-payer health care. But Bennett said he thinks they’ll reconsider when they examine the details. “I think they were a little hasty,” he said.

Notably, the proposed moderate agenda does not take issue with the party’s broad consensus in favor of abortion rights, LGBT equality, stricter gun control and support for immigrants and a path to citizenship for the undocumented.

In a twist, the agenda is based largely geography, rather than class or race, which are more popular on the left. It focuses on trying to address the fact that cities are thriving as rural areas fall behind.

Clinton was pilloried earlier this year for bragging that she “won the places that are optimistic, diverse, dynamic, moving forward,” but Democratic losses in the rest of America have been politically disastrous for the party.

The difficulty will be selling this approach in the Democratic presidential primary to a base that has seemed to move in the opposite direction.

Rep. Jim Himes, D-Conn., the chair of the New Democrat Coalition, said his side is not “naturally arbiters of emotion and anger.”

“How we tell our story and put forward our polices in a way that makes people want to mount the barricades is one of the biggest challenges we have,” said Himes, a former Goldman Sachs banker who represents Fairfield, Connecticut.

He pointed to calls to “Abolish ICE,” for instance, which he characterized as emotionally understandable but politically illogical.

“It hurts us in areas where we need to win,” Himes warned of “Abolish ICE” in the midterms. “You have now made life harder for the 60 or 70 Democrats fighting in districts where we need to win if we ever want to be in the majority.”

“We’re going to figure it out, though,” he added, looking down at his tie printed with little blue waves. “We’re going to figure it out.”

“n West Virginia, the leader of that state’s teacher strike, Richard Ojeda, is waging a strong campaign to take an open House seat long held by Republicans. Ojeda, a Democratic state senator who voted for Trump himself, is running as an out and out progressive populist…”

This is brilliant. Politically brilliant. Its by far, the single best approach i have ever read, to the abortion issue in a red-state like WV.

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Zooey wrote:

I want the GOP wiped out, btw. I want that party permanently crippled. Democrats would serve nicely as the conservative party since they are to the right of St. Ronald anyway. Then maybe DSA could become the second major party. I can dream.

That’s my view as well, Zooey.

The Dems have been the real “conservative party” for the last forty plus years. The GOP basically purged its actual conservatives and is now pretty much “hard right,” with a few exceptions.

It would be fantastic to see the DSA replace the Dems, as the Dems replace the GOP. More leftist voices too, the unaffiliated, etc. etc. They’d likely caucus with DSA.

For once in our lives, we’d very likely get to witness an actual “national conversation” with some depth and breadth to it, instead of the usual A to B range. Logically, action would follow the new pattern. Hopefully, at least.

Zooey wrote:

wv wrote:

“n West Virginia, the leader of that state’s teacher strike, Richard Ojeda, is waging a strong campaign to take an open House seat long held by Republicans. Ojeda, a Democratic state senator who voted for Trump himself, is running as an out and out progressive populist…”

This is brilliant. Politically brilliant. Its by far, the single best approach i have ever read, to the abortion issue in a red-state like WV.

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It’s the only possible approach, and it seems to be a good one. Besides which…it’s about time America was given the lens of Class Consciousness to perceive the world. Might help with a lot of things.

I remember the name Ojeda. He pronounces his last name in an Anglicized way, right? Oh-jay-da instead of Oh-hay-da.

I want the GOP wiped out, btw. I want that party permanently crippled. Democrats would serve nicely as the conservative party since they are to the right of St. Ronald anyway. Then maybe DSA could become the second major party. I can dream.

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Well i quoted the wrong part when i said his approach was brilliant. This is teh approach i thot was brilliant:

‘…Ojeda is so good that he manages to redefine social issues as class issues. Speaking at a pro-choice rally in Charleston, Ojeda told the crowd that he didn’t really like abortion, but that if it were outlawed, rich women would still get abortions.
West Virginians knew exactly what he meant…”

Finally, some SMART progressives. Some of these folks are a lot of fun to watch.

Granted they are not ‘radicals’ and they often seem to fall in line with the deep-state on foreign policy etc — but at this point, ya take what ya can get, in the land of the blind.

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