Cosell on 920, 12/5

This topic has 18 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 9 years, 9 months ago by Eternal Ramnation.

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December 5, 2014 at 4:39 pm #13169

zn
Moderator

Greg Cosell
Friday, December 05, 2014

Cosell starts about 1:55 in.

December 5, 2014 at 5:02 pm #13171

joemad
Participant

I don’t think Cusamano likes Sam Bradford……. I think Cosell likes Sam…..

“there’s a reason why Hill is a back up” “we had this same conversation last year about Clemmens, and where is he today”

December 5, 2014 at 5:28 pm #13172

zn
Moderator

joemad wrote:

I don’t think Cusamano likes Sam Bradford……. I think Cosell likes Sam…..

“there’s a reason why Hill is a back up” “we had this same conversation last year about Clemens, and where is he today”

Yeah.

He likes Bailey.

Likes Mason.

Thinks the league is turning back to pocket passers and the running game.

Talks about RG3 and McCoy. RG3 can’t even run the offense.

Kaepernick…same problem, mobile qbs not the answer. You can’t be both–a mobile qb and a refined pocket passer. Luck is a pocket passer who can run, different thing. Guys like CK always start out well, then defenses catch up.

December 5, 2014 at 5:35 pm #13175

Maddy
Participant

Some running QBs figure it out. Steve Young was too quick giving up plays and resorting to the run early in his career. Run-first type QBs need to become run-when-they-have-to type QBs. It worked out for Young.

December 5, 2014 at 5:37 pm #13176

Maddy
Participant

Bobby Douglas never figured it out, or was never allowed to.

December 5, 2014 at 5:43 pm #13178

Maddy
Participant

Was Randall Cunningham not a refined pocket passer? Was Warren Moon not really that mobile? Seems like there have been guys who were good at both.

December 5, 2014 at 5:47 pm #13179

zn
Moderator

Maddy wrote:

Was Randall Cunningham not a refined pocket passer? Was Warren Moon not really that mobile? Seems like there have been guys who were good at both.

I think the way Cosell is defining it, if you can run, cool, but first and foremost you have to pass from the pocket.

Cunningham of course became a better passer with the Vikes, and Moon could always pass the ball at a high level. Young learned to become a pocket passer, etc.

I think if he had his choice, he would take a guy like Luck who can pass but then can run, but if that wasn’t there (and it rarely is) he would be just fine with a pure passer. I think what he doesn’t want is a tweener who has to learn to become a passer…a guy like CK.

December 5, 2014 at 6:17 pm #13184

c1ram
Participant

Maddy wrote:

Bobby Douglas never figured it out, or was never allowed to.

Yeah, he was a safety throughout his career. As a Mizzou guy he drove me crazy running out at QB.

December 6, 2014 at 10:37 am #13205
joemad
Participant
Maddy wrote:

Some running QBs figure it out. Steve Young was too quick giving up plays and resorting to the run early in his career. Run-first type QBs need to become run-when-they-have-to type QBs. It worked out for Young.

I heard Young talk about this on his weekly segment on local SF radio. Sid Gillman tied Young’s legs with a rope to avoid Young from scrambling.

SY: Well, I was throwing the ball a lot (at BYU), so I had some concepts that were taught to me by (quarterbacks coach) Mike Holmgren in college. But I also ran around like crazy. Ironically, it was in the USFL with (Hall-of-Fame coach) Sid Gillman. People don’t remember that Sid Gillman was my coach. He was an old crotchety guy, but he was the first one to basically say, ‘You can’t just run around.’ … I remember, he literally tied my feet up. He got a rope and said ‘OK, you can’t go anywhere. What are you going to do? You can’t move. What’s your next plan?’ So that got me thinking about that.
- This reply was modified 9 years, 9 months ago by joemad.
December 6, 2014 at 11:15 am #13209

zn
Moderator

joemad wrote:

I heard Young talk about this on his weekly segment on local SF radio. Sid Gillman tied Young’s legs with a rope to avoid Young from scrambling.

SY: Well, I was throwing the ball a lot (at BYU), so I had some concepts that were taught to me by (quarterbacks coach) Mike Holmgren in college. But I also ran around like crazy. Ironically, it was in the USFL with (Hall-of-Fame coach) Sid Gillman. People don’t remember that Sid Gillman was my coach. He was an old crotchety guy, but he was the first one to basically say, ‘You can’t just run around.’ … I remember, he literally tied my feet up. He got a rope and said ‘OK, you can’t go anywhere. What are you going to do? You can’t move. What’s your next plan?’ So that got me thinking about that.

I think tying Young up and leaving him out there facing the D was a good idea. I mean I don’t know about the qb mechanics part of it, I just know he deserved it. Then, of course, they screwed up and untied him.

December 6, 2014 at 12:17 pm #13215

Zooey
Moderator

zn wrote:

joemad wrote:
I heard Young talk about this on his weekly segment on local SF radio. Sid Gillman tied Young’s legs with a rope to avoid Young from scrambling.

SY: Well, I was throwing the ball a lot (at BYU), so I had some concepts that were taught to me by (quarterbacks coach) Mike Holmgren in college. But I also ran around like crazy. Ironically, it was in the USFL with (Hall-of-Fame coach) Sid Gillman. People don’t remember that Sid Gillman was my coach. He was an old crotchety guy, but he was the first one to basically say, ‘You can’t just run around.’ … I remember, he literally tied my feet up. He got a rope and said ‘OK, you can’t go anywhere. What are you going to do? You can’t move. What’s your next plan?’ So that got me thinking about that.

I think tying Young up and leaving him out there facing the D was a good idea. I mean I don’t know about the qb mechanics part of it, I just know he deserved it. Then, of course, they screwed up and untied him.

I was living in LA when the USFL was invented, and I had season tickets to the LA Express, the team that signed Steve Young to an eye-popping $40 million deal (payable over 40 years). I was present at a game where he passed for over 300 yards, and rushed for over 100 yards. That guy was good. Of course, the Bucs couldn’t do anything with him.

December 6, 2014 at 12:58 pm #13218

rfl
Participant

I just find it fascinating and ironic that, suddenly, the talking heads are all saying, “running QBs can’t cut it, you need pocket passing, and, by the way, you need a running game.

The league runs in cycles. Has done for decades. A year or two back, people were saying RBs have no value and there was no place for the power running game.

Now, suddenly RBs are flavor of the month and pocket passers are the only true QBs. What a discovery!

I’ve said this before, but my HS coach told me in a casual conversation that the league and the game run in cycles from power to speed and speed to power. He told me that in 1972.

He was right.

By virtue of the absurd ...

December 6, 2014 at 4:23 pm #13236

Eternal Ramnation
Participant

The part about TA’s use as a threat to set up Mason’s screen is for me obvious TA is stressing defenses whether or not he touches the ball

December 6, 2014 at 5:41 pm #13239

rfl
Participant

Eternal Ramnation wrote:

The part about TA’s use as a threat to set up Mason’s screen is for me obvious TA is stressing defenses whether or not he touches the ball

ER, I’d be interested in knowing what you see that causes you to say that.

I don’t see it at all. TA has touched the ball many times in 2 years, and I rarely had any sense that the defense was finding it hard to close the door on him.

People say that down field plays are set up by adjustments to TA. Well, how is what defenses are doing any different from what they would do A) trying to shut Tre down and B) not generally respecting our WRs?

Honestly. What do you see? I don’t see it at all.

By virtue of the absurd ...

December 6, 2014 at 7:48 pm #13247

zn
Moderator

rfl wrote:

People say that down field plays are set up by adjustments to TA.

Some have been.

Well, both Cosell and the announcers during the game remarked on how the defense went Tavon’s direction leaving space on Masons’s side on a screen pass, the one that went for the TD.

There was another game where Tavon underneath drawing coverage left a Rams receiver open deeper, and that drew a lot of attention from the game analysts.

So it has happened.

Either way my bet is that sooner or later Tavon proves his value to the point where all agree on it. And I don’t mind waiting for that. Not everyone hits their stride early. Not even in their 1st 2 years.

I learned my lesson on that. I wrote Quick off completely last year.

December 6, 2014 at 8:34 pm #13248

wv
Participant

Well, some of the ‘running qbs’ have
had a bad year, but a ‘running qb’
still quarterbacked the team that won
the Ring last year.

And yes i know about Seattle’s
D and running game. But ask
any seattle-watcher what they think
of R.Wilson. He’s clutch.

w
v

December 6, 2014 at 8:42 pm #13249

zn
Moderator

wv wrote:

Well, some of the ‘running qbs’ have
had a bad year, but a ‘running qb’
still quarterbacked the team that won
the Ring last year.

And yes i know about Seattle’s
D and running game. But ask
any seattle-watcher what they think
of R.Wilson. He’s clutch.

w
v

But the key there is “clutch,” not “running.”

Wilson is a very good qb. They take advantage of his running without getting him slaughtered. But when he has to make a clutch throw, he does.

Not every starting qb with run-first ability is Wilson. Just as not every pocket passer is Brees or Warner.

December 6, 2014 at 8:50 pm #13250

zn
Moderator

zn wrote:

Wilson is a very good qb. They take advantage of his running without getting him slaughtered. But when he has to make a clutch throw, he does.

Not every starting qb with run-first ability is Wilson. Just as not every pocket passer is Brees or Warner.

Besides.

Wilson has 4 TDs on 91 rushing attempts, which is a 4.4% percentage.

Hill has 1 TD on 4 rushing attempts, which is 25%.

So this absolutely PROVES, just completely without doubt DEMONSTRATES, that Hill is the better running qb.

Doesn’t it.

December 6, 2014 at 11:44 pm #13254

Eternal Ramnation
Participant

rfl wrote:

Eternal Ramnation wrote:
The part about TA’s use as a threat to set up Mason’s screen is for me obvious TA is stressing defenses whether or not he touches the ball

ER, I’d be interested in knowing what you see that causes you to say that.

I don’t see it at all. TA has touched the ball many times in 2 years, and I rarely had any sense that the defense was finding it hard to close the door on him.

People say that down field plays are set up by adjustments to TA. Well, how is what defenses are doing any different from what they would do A) trying to shut Tre down and B) not generally respecting our WRs?

Honestly. What do you see? I don’t see it at all.

Well RFL , it is a recent development but the whole sequence against Oakland screen TA left 1st down Screen Ta right 1st down. The next play to me anyways ( I’ve just watched that opening drive many times) Hill fakes another screen to TA left and it draws the whole defense in TA’s direction,not for long but with Mason’s speed a second is enough.Later on the next drive when Bailey starts heating up TA when he’s in is freeing up Bailey by drawing the better coverage towards TA.Then of course on Mason’s 89yrd run TA actually gets 2 blocks when he catches Mason and escorts him to the endzone, nice play without the ball.Also the speed sweep TA’s scored on looked to me like it was commanding respect the rest of the game.So I do think they use him effectively as a threat more so these last 2 games. On the negative side I do think TA is a slow learner, I mean they tried to run that sweep early against the Vikes and it didn’t seem he understood where and when he had to be for the design of the play and he would do the freelance stutter step dance for a 1 yd gain.
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