Connor Cook's Dad

bnw wrote:

I call BS on the column. The ” teams questioned his behavior — off the field and toward teammates” is what made him drop and if he pans out in the NFL he may consider giving back with an eye towards what that sniping gossip cost him in cash lost.

It’s not sniping gossip if in fact, as was widely reported, he was basically an arrogant dick who offended his own teammates and was a prowling nightlifer on top of it. It’s the Jeff George profile.

Remember, it’s not the reporters who are saying this stuff. It’s the teams. The reporters are just picking things up from teams.

The teams are the ones who dropped him to round 4.

And according to the reporter, NFL PERSONNEL PEOPLE felt his twitter-active dad was one of the detractions. This isn’t the first time teams have dropped players in their rankings because they come with family baggage.

None of this is the reporter. It’s the reporter reporting things NFL personnel people were considering.

And of course there were other things too, not just dad (who among other things knocked a fan unconscious in the stands during a game).

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bnw wrote:

zn wrote:

Remember, it’s not the reporters who are saying this stuff. It’s the teams. The reporters are just picking things up from teams.

The teams are the ones who dropped him to round 4.

And according to the reporter, NFL PERSONNEL PEOPLE felt his twitter-active dad was one of the detractions. This isn’t the first time teams have dropped players in their rankings because they come with family baggage.

None of this is the reporter. It’s the reporter reporting things NFL personnel people were considering.

And of course there were other things too, not just dad (who among other things knocked a fan unconscious in the stands during a game).

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It is the reporters since the Detroit sports rag posited it about the NFL teams.

“Detroit Sports Rag posits that teams look at quarterbacks’ fathers when they evaluate their draft-worthiness, and what they found when they dug into Connor’s father Chris soured enough of them for Cook to fall to the fourth.”

The guy dropped in the draft due to his actions, not his dad’s.

No you are completely misreading. First, that was not the only article on this–it’s just the one I posted. There are several, including ones from Oakland. This is a widespread story. In every case it is made clear that the dad-on-twitter issue is ONE of the things that NFL personnel people considered a red flag. The issue the articles all raised is why NFL personnel people dropped Cook in their rankings. Loud dad was one of them. It’s just one of them.

It is actually quite normal for NFL personnel people to look into the family. It is also normal for them to red flag a guy with family distractions in his history. And it is equally normal for some teams then to leak issues like that to various reporters.

Remember—the actual issue being covered is this: why did Cook drop in the draft. The answer came from NFL people. Among other things, having a loud toxic social media dad was one of the things that NFL PEOPLE SAID dropped Cook in their assessments.

You’re just blaming the messanger.

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bnw wrote:

o, all I’ve seen is what you posted and that didn’t say squat about the NFL downgrading the guy at all because of his dad.

Well that’s the word. There are several articles talking about this.

As far as teams “owning up” to red-flagging a guy for various reasons, they’re doing their jobs and have nothing to apologize for. The NFL has been doing this for years…guys get red-flagged every single year, even the Rams do it. And again: no one said that toxic dad was the only reason. In fact they all say different–it was more than one thing.

In terms of this being what teams thought about Cook and not just the work of a reporter, in the one article I posted, it is said in the very first paragraph:

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A report about why he fell despite his obvious talent pointed to attitude problems and a bad rap from his teammates. According to the Detroit News, there wasn’t one incident that turned teams off, but rather, nobody seemed to like Cook much

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In other words they are writing about what TEAMS in the NFL think of Cook. The issue is why he dropped in the draft. That’s the point of the whole thing.

And there’s more. As I said I only posted one article. It all comes in the context of red-flagging Cook in general over character and personality issues. So I provide samples of all of that, since that’s the context:

NFL team scouts do extensive homework on the players entering the draft to try and make sure they get a good feel for the talent and character of the prospects. For Connor Cook, what we witnessed was a borderline first round talent fall into the third day due to character concerns. Or perhaps more so the character concerns of his father and his influence on his son.
http://www.silverandblackpride.com/2016/5/6/11609274/connor-cook-fell-in-draft-due-to-parental-influences-oakland-raiders

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One of Spiro’s national sources told him that part of the reason that Cook was going to fall was because the NFL really delves into the background of potential QUARTERBACK draftees’ fathers.

Whether you think that is appropriate or not doesn’t matter. We were told that NFL executives believe there is some correlation between how a QB pans out and their sire.

link: http://detroitsportsrag.net/is-connor-cooks-dad-curt-schilling/

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But even though Cook has the talent to contribute in the NFL, sources made it clear why he slid so far in the draft. Teams view Cook as arrogant, a player whose personality flaws could be an issue in a locker room full of alpha males. In the NFL, any ego that doesn’t fit can be problematic, especially at quarterback.

While many players fall because of an isolated incident, there was no such issue with Cook, but teams questioned his behavior — off the field and toward teammates….

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state-university/spartans/2016/04/30/personality-issues-caused-connor-cooks-fall-draft/83773076/

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Here’s the reality: The questions about Cook’s intangibles – personality, leadership, maturity, whatever – have existed for a while and they are widespread. They just got louder once Cook’s teammates didn’t elect him a team captain last fall. I know, because I heard the same thing last summer that I heard this spring.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/draft/2016/04/30/connor-cook-nfl-draft-michigan-state-spartans/83740594/

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NFL teams dig deep specifically on the fathers of NFL quarterbacks and that there’s a direct correlation between crummy dads and bad future NFL passers. While we never will make a direct line between those two things, we will say this: Teams most certainly are aware of the actions and personalities of players’ family members, and it can have an effect — direct or otherwise — on where they end up playing or not playing in the NFL.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/did-connor-cook-s-father-affect-his-draft-slide–it-s-possible-190734826.html

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Did Cook’s dad have anything to do with him slipping into the fourth round? It’s possible, and there have been reports that some teams simply didn’t like the way Cook carried himself in pre-draft interviews. If any team was looking for a reason to take a chance on Cook, his dad’s strong personality probably didn’t help nudge them in that direction.

link: http://larrybrownsports.com/football/connor-cooks-father-chris-may-have-soured-teams-on-qb/303703

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bnw wrote:

Exactly what I thought. Not one example of a team saying the guys dad figured into their downgrading of the guy. Not one. The best you could do was a “perhaps” and a “national source”. Again I call BS. Don’t know why you would use the term “apologize” for a team that considered the dad among the negatives for the draftee. Everything thus far merely confirms that the guy fell in the draft due to his own actions.

Teams don’t say that directly. It’s off the record buzz. You’ve followed football long enough, no doubt, to see how that works.

On the other hand, reporters don’t make up what teams say. They get called on that.

And I did not say he fell in the draft because of his toxic dad alone–in fact I said otherwise, more than once.

I said teams had negative takes on him and it was more than one thing. I provided quotes saying as much.

The issue is to explain why he fell in the draft. I never said it was solely because he dad was a jerk…and not only did I say otherwise, I provided quotations from sources that did as well…to quote it again: Did Cook’s dad have anything to do with him slipping into the fourth round? It’s possible, and there have been reports that some teams simply didn’t like the way Cook carried himself in pre-draft interviews. If any team was looking for a reason to take a chance on Cook, his dad’s strong personality probably didn’t help nudge them in that direction.

bnw wrote:

All along I’ve said it is on the guy. What the guy did. What was said about the guy. That is all that was ever mentioned. Anything about his dad was never said to be a part of the negatives any team assigned to the guy. The whole throwing the dad under the bus as a contributing factor is BS until a team owns up to it. Until then his dad had nothing to do with his downgrading in the draft.

Well no team “owned up to” the other stuff either. So as I said multiple times (at least once per post) they were looking at his character and a number of things got mentioned. And, when you look at the other things, no team is explicitly and directly “owning” that stuff either. It too has the same status—reporters hear things from NFL people, and write it up as “teams say” or “some NFL people say” etc. Its status is no different. How do we know some teams did not like the way he handled himself in interviews? Because, as reported, “some teams said” or “some NFL executives have let it be known” etc. That kind of thing is virtually never direct, at least when it comes to red-flagging draft picks.

But then on the mighty toxic dad issue, we will each believe what we want, which is fine.

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OK good, we have gotten the issue out of the way that no NFL team has cited anything about this guy’s dad as being among the negative marks used in his downgrading.

No…that’s not what I said. Don’t misconstrue my point. What I said was that no team openly said anything about why they downgraded Cook. They didn’t openly say the stuff you believe, any more than they openly said the stuff you DON’T believe.

So my point was they never said THIS, either:

. The downgrading was due to people who had dealt with him personally whether as a teammate or NFL draft interviewee.

My point, then, was that no team said anythingexplicitly. It was all leaked whispers. You may choose to believe one set of things and not the other, and that’s your personal choice. But you aren’t going to “win” an argument about which kind of leaked whispers count and which don’t. That’s simply a matter of opinion.

I also quoted enough to show you the “toxic dad” issue does not reduce to one reporter.

And I put in the “agree to disagree” qualifier too, because if I am just repeating myself, then, it’s not a discussion. It’s just a quarrel we should put a halt to. This kind of bickering is not common on this board, so learn when to graciously say “yeah okay we just differ on this.” I said “But then on the mighty toxic dad issue, we will each believe what we want, which is fine.”

So we’re done. Your view is known, mine is known. Right?

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bnw wrote:

No, since I didn’t misconstrue your point. Review what you wrote and you’ll see I’m in agreement about teams taking into account people like teammates who have dealt with the player. You even suggested teams might have seen something in his interviews with NFL teams for the draft. Again I agree. What we don’t agree on and what you have never posted proof of in this case or any other is if the dad was used as a negative mark by any NFL team in the players downgrading. There is no proof of that and I contend that the ass clown writer should be sued by the dad.

Look this is over. I will just clarify. NONE of the things said about why Cook dropped is open, explicit, “owned by teams,” direct, or any of that. It all has the same status. We get hints teams didn’t like the way he interviewed…we get hints that toxic dad may have been an issue. It’s all hints.

That’s the third or 4th time I’ve said that. We’re not going anywhere. Neither of us is going to change, and this is becoming the kind of bickering we shut down on this board.

So along with me, give it a break. Everyone knows what each of us thinks and no one will “win.” Move on. Okay?

bnw wrote:

Alright though I take issue with your use of the word “win”.

Fair enough.