Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Rams Huddle › camp reports 8/2
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August 2, 2015 at 10:42 pm #27973znModerator
KnowBody
How can one possibly present any meaningful information about nothing
Well, nothing is all relative, depending on who you are, and where you are at, so to me, watching a padless practice while communicating with a new found friend, nothing was the actual practice itself
I do this because I love people. And maybe there is one interested Rams fan out there that wants to read a different take on this team during this immensely meaningful, yet meaningless time of year
This will be all flow, no order, other than that divined by chance
What I saw was what I expected to see, a magical catch by Stedman Bailey
On a perfect throw by Nick Foles where he put it the only place it could be
Jenks made a strong play on the ball, but Bailey’s concentration and hands were to strong.. he and Foles hooked up for what, to me, was the play of the day for the offense
The defense is making plays and forcing turnovers. Swarming to the ball and attacking with brutality, maybe too much, even, because the pads are not even on yet.. but still, I respect that they gave all their heart to a practice, as should be done, as it is just as important as the performance that you are in training for
Let me interrupt this transcript to explain to you how wrong I can be. I thought Isaiah Pead was going to be a superstar Barry Sanders type running back in this league. I talked him up endlessly during his first training camp. I did my part in creating a false set of expectations for you all to have; which is why this report, as well as any report, should be taken lightly, and read for sheer enjoyment, and not for actually learning anything, in my opinion. Pead saw limited action but gave every ounce of energy and heart that he had to it, so for that alone he should be commended. Just because he didn’t live up to my unrealistic expectations, doesn’t make him a failure, not in my eyes, at least..
I was distraught when I did not see Gaines on the field, but Marcus Roberson stepped up and made some place out there.. and speaking of CB’s, Joyner is my Defensive MVP of the practice of 8-2… he made a strong play on the ball protecting a score at the last second and came up with what would have been a pick six, once again created by heavy pressure from our dominant Dline.. he is looking like the playmaker that we used a second rounder on, at least today, he was
I really do love every player on the team and people in general, again, which is why I am writing this report, but in my opinion, Gaines is a better cornerback than Janoris Jenkins… don’t get me wrong, I love me some Jenk when he is recovering fumbles, intercepting the ball and laying out TE’s, and I hope he has a phenomenal season, dont get me wrong, but I still think Gaines is the more consistent corner of the two.. is it my Mizzou loyalty bleeding through, perhaps, but I think the world of Gaines and his potential, so long as he can stay healthy.. hope the reports on his health are positive!!
in this passing league you need way more than just two quality cover men though, so all will find their time and place
Ogletree might be our best defensive player, or the player with the highest ceiling, other than anyone on our DL.. he is fun to watch play the game. The zone blitzing that Williams enjoys to use in order to confuse the offense presnap plays perfectly into his game because he can play man or zone as well as a safety.. he should have had a pick today.. foles was forced to throw a bad pass by the nonstop interior beast rush, he stepped up to make the play, similarly to his pick six against the Texans, but dropped the ball.. hopefully he makes that play when it counts. i believe he will.
Side note: It is nice not having to report on how well sam Bradford is looking this time of year
Not saying that Nick is the surefire answer, but he did throw a few beautiful balls today, as did Keenum, in conditions that do not accurately represent real game conditions, so they thusly must be taken for what they are… nothing… he also made a few poor throws.. our offense is struggling to find itself against a great defense. So as long as the offensive players don’t let the lack of perfection disable them from maintaining that inner confidence, they will grow, together, better every day.. they just have to learn how to work together and communicate..
that new OLine looks the part, with those massive piles of pure beastliness ready to protect at all costs, but they gave way too much today..
that said, Nick Foles still made some nice throws and the offense had some decent plays, that would have been valid scores or first downs, but all in all, it was rather pathetic to watch
they are just learning, like young puppies, so I treat them as such, as most of them are way younger than me at 29
Anything that we want pin point our attention on, we will see, and it is difficult to focus on individual points when everything is happening at once, and it is happening instantaneously, and I really didn’t know what to key in on today, but for the most part, so my specifics and what not have been compromised
Robinson is an athletic freak at the LT position. He is faster than last year, and much quicker to react with the proper instincts. He made an impressive play on a screen that only the most athletic and determined LT’s can make. He did get beat by Quinn several times, but who doesn’t get struck by black lightning from time to time ?
Havenstein is a mean beast out on that field.. i wouldn’t want to mess with that dude, or any of these guys, really
enough of the good, on to the bad, The interior of our Oline was eaten alive by Donald and Fairley today, and don’t forget about Brockers too, what a beastly line we have… but the addition of Fairley might have been a bigger move than I first thought
Stedman Bailey is our #1 receiver, imo, he needs to be on the field more
Tavon looks more confident and sure of himself than he did a few years ago.. I expect to be wrong about him being a bust. He already isn’t a bust, as he helped us beat indy, and I love and respect any Ram on the team that does anything to help us win games
But losing, as a masochistic Rams fan, it has been great.. I love rooting for the underdog. That said, I am ready for the Rams to dominate because i am changing my ways. From start to finish of every game, all year long. I know that perfection is impossible. But so was that throw that Foles made to Bailey, and yet, as we know, it was still made.
I just hope we get through camp and preseason healthy
I didn’t focus much on the specifics because I spent the majority of my concentration on communicating with this interesting individual that I met there who helped me remember how unimportant money is, as it will leave every single one of you when it is your time to pass on from this life.. also, he pointed out the three bright shining trees on the otherside.. I could try to explain what we communicated about but it would be a waste of time and space
Thus, as it is now apparent, I was able to care enough about that communication, and let go of caring so much about every single play that is made at practice today, because I didn’t think I was going to write a report.
I didn’t go to camp to write a report
I went to camp to watch the magical Bailey catch and talk to this brother of mine that doesn’t even really care much for the Rams
You don’t have to be a rams fan to be on my side
As evidence by the title, this practice wasn’t serious, not to me at least, but a serious fight did break out between the offense and defenseThe energy at this practice was intense, even though I know that the coaches wanted them to take it easy and focus on technique and that sort of thing
This team could turn into something very special.. I don’t want to preach optimism so that I can form my little tent of Rams believers, but I haven’t seen a defense this disruptive and chaotic and downright dominant since I became a Rams fan back when they moved to Saint LouisThe key will be can this offensive line create time and space for Foles and our Rb’s
The key will always be, is our interior our greatest strength?
On defense, yes, on offense, I’m not so sure. It is a mystery
It was refreshing to see Rams football being played again
I look forward to my own continued self growth as well as the growth of this team
However, if this team lets me down, which it has done every year for the last 15 years, I will still love them
I just hope they stay in STL
Go Rams!!!!
i see the heart and i love it
if you have any particular players, oh yeah, Alex Bayer is our best pass catching TE imo, that you want my non expert opinion on, let me know, i will try to get around to them as time allows
hope you have a swell evening, and shine on
August 2, 2015 at 10:56 pm #27975znModeratorCodeMonkey
I don’t have a lot to add beyond what others have already posted. Just a few notes:
One guy that jumped out at us as the Oline was doing the hill drill was Isaiah Battle. My son commented how he was the biggest one.
Again today we saw Foles under a lot of pressure. I will say this though, while the pass protection is behind (or appears so) from where we would like the run blocking is excellent.
two most positive takeaways for me…
1) Our defense looks good…very.
2) We will be able to run the ball. I saw some very nice running lanes out there and we certainly have the horses.
August 2, 2015 at 11:43 pm #27977znModeratorRamzFanz
My take on the day:
My player of the day is… Bailey. Dude is a stud. Forget about it. He BETTER be featured this season. Every time I looked up he was hauling in a pass. He’s all in every play.
Honorable mention goes to Mannion. Bold prediction, he’s our #2. I’m not kidding. He’s accurate, athletic, a fast release, and the least intercepted of the 3 non-starters.
I’m sorry, I’m not going to comment on the O line at all. It’s just too early and too complicated for me. They made great plays and also got crushed by the best D line in the NFL. The Center debate will have to wait for a better mind BUT I will add that no one was calling out Rhaney like previous centers.
Speed goes to the D-line. Forget about it. They must be holding back sometimes because when they go all out, it’s not one guy in the backfield, it’s three or four. That isn’t a slam on the o-line, these guys are twisting an turning themselves into the backfield.
This was Foles worst day in my mind, but it was still very good at times. Dude can throw. The consensus I heard was either his skills take a nose dive after the first read or he’s not familiar enough with the playbook yet. Let’s hope it’s the later. Still, he’s a threat every down. He would have been hammered by this D-Line which is a good thing.
Being that I have a real hope that an American hero makes the team, I want to mention that Daniel Rodriguez was fielding punts again and Jeff Garcia stayed after to throw to him, like they were friends. He hasn’t dropped a pass or a punt that I’ve seen all camp. Dude is all motor. I smell an upset on the 53.
August 2, 2015 at 11:50 pm #27978znModeratorBeing that I have a real hope that an American hero makes the team, I want to mention that Daniel Rodriguez was fielding punts again and Jeff Garcia stayed after to throw to him, like they were friends.
For more on Rodriguez, see this thread:
CoachO’s 3-day report is here:
http://theramshuddle.com/topic/coacho-camp-report-covering-731-82/
Jimi’s 8/2 twitter report is here:
http://theramshuddle.com/topic/jimis-tweets-from-camp-82/
Previous camp reports are here:
http://theramshuddle.com/topic/camp-reports-81/
http://theramshuddle.com/topic/camp-report/
http://theramshuddle.com/topic/ramview-73115-training-camp-report-long/
August 3, 2015 at 10:20 am #27990znModeratorTortoise.
Had a great time at Rams Park.
Bailey was incredible! I wish I was able to get some pics of his catches. His hands are amazing. I am really hoping he is featured more this season.
That said, most of Bailey’s catches were awesome because the throws were not on target. Foles was not on today. I don’t know if he is still getting his timing down with some of the guys or if it is an accuracy issue. The other thing that was pointed out and discussed was – If the first read isn’t there, he gets happy feet and struggles with his 2nd and 3rd read. He is holding the ball WAY too long when going through the progressions. Is it because he is still learning the playbook and doesn’t know automatically where the receivers are supposed to be? I sure hope so.
Mannion had the best day for the QBs. He had an interception, and a couple of (well) overthrown balls, but for the most part he was on target. If he can keep this up, #2 QB is his.
Britt had a good day. He made some really nice catches, and most of the passes to him were right were they were supposed to be.
Quick had several good catches. – one with a defender draped all over him (I believe it was Joyner). He used his size perfectly to box the defender out.
Tre Mason was looking really good. Nice burst of speed hitting the hole.
Alex Bayer is an easy guy to forget about. He made a nice catch and I had to look at my roster to see who 82 was. He made 2 more nice catches, one of which almost took his head off. Mannion threw him a ball with some extra sauce on it. It was almost on top of Bayer before he came out of his break. I still don’t know how he got his hands up to catch it in time. If it were me, I’d still be in surgery having a football removed from my throat!
Pead. This guy pisses me off. All of the talent in the world, and a ‘woe-is-me’ attitude. For 2 years I’ve wanted him cut from this team. If he keeps doing what he did today, that won’t be happening this year either. Bennie better step up his game because Pead was bringing it. Did I mention he pisses me off? Grrr.
The defense in general had a great day. It would be hard to single any of them out. They were in the backfield on most plays – that includes most of the nice plays that I referenced up above. In a real game, those plays never would have happened because the QB would have been buried in the turf. I hope that changes once the pads come on. I have zero concerns about them being ready to go on week 1 (with exception to Gaines’ injury – tbd).
Joyner had a rough start, but about 1/2 through the practice, he started making some really nice plays.
Gaines got tangled up with Britt and went down. He was laying on the field being attended to by the trainers for several minutes. You could tell he was really hurting. He was able to walk off the field on his own, but it didn’t look good.
Emory Blake was down on the far sideline for a long time. He was having his foot/ankle looked at. I didn’t see when/how he got off the field.
T.J. McDonald got man-handled on one play and didn’t care for it. There was a couple extra shoves after the whistle. That lead to a punch – I believe by Cook – that would make Isaiah Battle proud. At that point, neither was backing down and 3/4 the team swarmed in. It was hard to tell what all was happening but McDonald ended up getting taken down. I read someone else thought Jamon Brown was in on it too? I can’t say for sure. These guys are ready to put the pads on though.
Offensive Line.
This is a hard one. They aren’t in pads, so it is very hard to judge where they are.
Havenstein got beat on the edge pretty bad on a play. Other than that, I didn’t notice him. (That is a good thing) I didn’t see the D coming from that edge while he was there.
Jones got pushed around at center quite a bit. I wasn’t impressed with Barnes with the 1 on 1 drills. I tried to follow Rhaney, but with everything going on, I only watched a few plays and he held his own.
Washington, Bond, D. Williams and Wang were turnstiles.
Reynolds seemed ok.
I think that this season is going to hinge on the offense and if the line can come together, and Foles has to get the ball out quickly and accurately – even if it is to his 2nd or 3rd read. After seeing practice today, I have concerns.
Just my take on the day. I’m hoping to make practice Tuesday.
August 3, 2015 at 3:33 pm #28000znModeratorbeastlykev08
Training Camp Observations August 2nd
1) Isaiah Pead looks really good, quick cuts and looks to be in terrific shape. Really wow-ed me in drills.
2) Nick Foles doesn’t have quite the same pop on his throws as Bradford but has a better feel for speed on balls. Looks somewhat slow in pocket but who knows they were in just t shirts and shorts today.
3) Havenstein looks huge, won’t comment on his quality of play because in t shirts and shorts you can’t tell but good lord he’s massive. Kind of reminds me of Jake Long’s build.
4) EJ Gaines went down for a little bit and was helped off the field by trainers, was able to put weight on the foot which is a very good sign. Most likely an ankle sprain.
5) Marcus Roberson looked awesome. Joyner flashed a little bit.
6) Quick made some wow catches and has a crazy vertical.
7) Bailey looked great made a couple really nice catches, definitely did not lose his hands over the off season. Also Austin showed some pretty good burst running the ball.
August 3, 2015 at 4:22 pm #28003rflParticipant(Foles) is holding the ball WAY too long when going through the progressions. Is it because he is still learning the playbook and doesn’t know automatically where the receivers are supposed to be? I sure hope so.
A couple of brief points.
1st, while many observers quite sensibly acknowledge that OL can’t be fairly evaluated without full pads, what is often forgotten is that QBs can’t be fairly evaluated for holding on to the ball in early scrimmages either.
We have to understand that, early in camp, an offense is not really integrated yet–even when they are going 11 on 11. The OL is doing its thing. The backs are coordinating their moves in the running game. And, in the passing game, the QBs are working to get timing down with their receivers. No one hits the QB with the protective jerseys. They know that, and they are going to go through with the passing play even though everyone knows it “woulda” been a sack. The OL cannot be expected to provide the protection they will later. And the point of the QB decision-making is not to make the most of a bad play, but to get the work in connecting with WRs. It’s a completely different mindset from what actual competition is.
On the other hand, I get a long-distance impression about the difference between Foles and Sam.
Sam was known as a safe QB. His pretty good stats were in large part based on avoiding trouble and very quickly checking down. This is an important virtue in QBs … and can be a weakness. Sam was frequently criticized for lacking the nerve to “throw people open” and for checking down to throw ineffectual, underneath passes all the time.
Foles, I tend to think, may be the other sort of QB. He appears to be very nervy in throwing the football into traffic, believing he can make the play. That highlight reel someone put up a few weeks back shows him doing that. And that’s a very good thing … except when it isn’t. A QB who stubbornly stays with the 1st read and tries to throw people open makes mistakes and throws picks. This apparently is what people criticized Foles for last year.
Now, great QBs balance the two. Sam may or may not have the potential to be a great QB, but he never flashed it for us. Foles probably doesn’t have what it takes to be a great QB.
But we need to understand both sides of what Foles is likely to show us. He will make big plays in tiny windows. A couple of camp reports have spoken glowingly of examples of that already. The other side of the same coin is reckless risk-taking. Sometimes, that nervy QB will get burned. More often perhaps than a guy like Sam whose instinct was always to check down.
I dunno what any of this adds up to. Foles is new to the offense and to our receivers and he’s playing in drills which don’t ask him to minimize the damage on broken plays. Hopefully, he’ll settle in nicely.
But understand that his package will probably be very different from Sam’s. He will take that extra look and try to squeeze the ball in. That will produce inspiring plays AND bad picks. Let’s recognize the relationship between the 2 sides of the coin.
By virtue of the absurd ...
August 3, 2015 at 4:58 pm #28006znModeratorI get your argument, but honestly, it is true that Foles is far less effective when he holds the ball longer.
To repeat something I already posted,
Foles is actually a good rhythm/short game passer. Last year Foles, as everyone knows, was not as stellar overall as he was in 2013, but where he did do well was throwing the ball in under 2.6 seconds. He had a 73.5% completion percentage when he threw quickly, which was 6th out of 39 qbs, and a qb rating of 103.5, which was 11th.
Everyone talks about Foles being able to get out of trouble and look downfield, but actually, he is generally a worse qb overall when he does that. When he has the ball for more than 2.6 seconds, his completion percentage in 2014 was 46.4%, which was 38th out of 39. His qb rating fell to 59.4, which was 37th out of 39. Only Blake Bortles and Josh McCown were
worse.He was also sacked at a higher rate on passes that took more time.
August 3, 2015 at 9:56 pm #28035CalParticipantFoles, I tend to think, may be the other sort of QB. He appears to be very nervy in throwing the football into traffic, believing he can make the play. That highlight reel someone put up a few weeks back shows him doing that. And that’s a very good thing … except when it isn’t. A QB who stubbornly stays with the 1st read and tries to throw people open makes mistakes and throws picks. This apparently is what people criticized Foles for last year.
Now, great QBs balance the two. Sam may or may not have the potential to be a great QB, but he never flashed it for us. Foles probably doesn’t have what it takes to be a great QB.
But we need to understand both sides of what Foles is likely to show us. He will make big plays in tiny windows. A couple of camp reports have spoken glowingly of examples of that already. The other side of the same coin is reckless risk-taking. Sometimes, that nervy QB will get burned. More often perhaps than a guy like Sam whose instinct was always to check down.
This is a good description of Foles’ style of play based on the 4-5 games I watched of his last year. I would, however, say the bold part doesn’t really capture some (maybe many???) of Foles’ mistakes last year. Foles strikes me as a sandlot guy who likes to improvise. Maybe he has a little Kurt Warner in him??
A play against the Cards from last year sticks out. Foles has the TE down the seam on a play action pass and just as he is about to fire the ball to the te, he re-starts his throwing motion to make a deeper throw to the end zone. But he doesn’t have his feet under him and he is unable to put any zip on the ball.The result is an int and a wasted chance to get points against a good Cardinals defense.
(I’ve always wondered if plays like this drove Chip Kelley crazy. If Foles takes what’s there and executes what (I would guess at least) Kelley wants, the offense functions beautifully. Bradford IS that type of qb when he’s healthy.Here’s the link to the highlights if anybody wants to watch the play in question-
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-gameday/0ap3000000418285/Week-8-Eagles-vs-Cardinals-highlights)
So I wouldn’t just simplify Foles’s problems to stubbornly sticks to the first read. He looks like a guy that likes to play a little sandlot football. I believe I read an article about him changing a play during his first year under Andy Reid in fact.
Foles is also deadly accurate when he is flushed from the pocket and throws on the run. I’m guessing that he views that as a strength in his game. The problem is that under those chaotic circumstances a qb can lose track of the defenders and someone can easily step in front of the receiver.
- This reply was modified 9 years, 4 months ago by Cal.
August 4, 2015 at 7:30 am #28047rflParticipantSo I wouldn’t just simplify Foles’s problems to stubbornly sticks to the first read. He looks like a guy that likes to play a little sandlot football. I believe I read an article about him changing a play during his first year under Andy Reid in fact.
Foles is also deadly accurate when he is flushed from the pocket and throws on the run. I’m guessing that he views that as a strength in his game. The problem is that under those chaotic circumstances a qb can lose track of the defenders and someone can easily step in front of the receiver.
Thanks for the added information, Cal.
I’m just groping toward a sense of who the guy is. I’ve seen precious little of him and am trying to extrapolate from what I read.
I think what interests me is what you can learn from criticisms. It just strikes me that Sam was criticized for checking down, Foley for hanging on. Both seem to suggest very different players. And both have an upside.
I guess I just have a thing about criticisms … and praise. So often, the consensus, book characterization of a guy is imbalanced and unaware that every strength is a weakness, and every weakness a strength.
By virtue of the absurd ...
August 4, 2015 at 1:33 pm #28061znModeratorJust adding to the discussion. I have no set view of NF, myself, though I do have some half-formed ideas. I want to see him in the Rams offense before deciding. So this is just me adding interesting bits from around out yonder to the discussion.
==============
gqscholar
I live in the Philly area and seen nearly every Foles game. Foles strength is stretching the field, throwing a catchable ball even in tight coverage and pulling himself together late in games to win.
The weakness of Foles is getting the ball out fast when the first read isn’t there. Sometimes he holds the ball too long. IMO this was the reason why the Eagles traded him.
With that said, Foles is still young (could still improve his weaknesses), talented, a leader and has shown a knack for winning games. In this offense (built around a good defense and strong running game) Foles IMO will shine.
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August 4, 2015 at 3:23 pm #28062wvParticipantJust adding to the discussion.
I have no set view of NF, myself…”First off, you aren’t allowed to post in Blue ;
Only Ag and Miles-Davis-Ram are authorized to do kinda blue posts.Moreover, I don’t think you are allowed to even post
on a message-board if you aren’t willing to take a dogmatic
and life-or-death set-view of NF.w
vAugust 5, 2015 at 1:08 am #28117znModeratorFirst off, you aren’t allowed to post in Blue ;
Only Ag and Miles-Davis-Ram are authorized to do kinda blue posts.Moreover, I don’t think you are allowed to even post
on a message-board if you aren’t willing to take a dogmatic
and life-or-death set-view of NF.I say all people who do NOT agree with my view—that although we have an ambiguous past with Foles it’s nonetheless possible to be cautiously optimistic about him in the meanwhile until we get to see him with our own eyes—should be dammed to hell and/or banned from posting. It is the only possible stance. I hope it’s clear I say that precisely because I am NOT being dogmatic.
August 5, 2015 at 1:09 am #28118znModeratorbadnews
We’ve had great technicians across the o-line in recent years. They’ve just been totally physically outmatched. That won’t be the case this year. I think Coach Boudreau can teach the technique… he couldn’t teach Wells to be more powerful, or Joseph to be more athletic.
Foles and the o-line are the keys to the season…. and they are struggling. After seeing it in person though, I’m not nearly as concerned as I would be from reading these reports. (Which have been awesome and accurate Btw)
Williams looked like he didn’t belong out there. Just fodder. But I may have only keyed in on him a couple of times total. Bond and Washington made no good impressions.
Havenstein moves really well for his size, I thought. Not nearly as lumbering as I had imagined. GROB is trimmer. I think he is going to be fine at LT… at the least he should play faster, and he certainly looks the part.
Rhaney is the most gifted Center on the roster imo. If he has the mind to go along with his size and athleticism, he could win it easily. Tim Barnes is just thoroughly outmatched by someone every play. It’s between Jones and Rhaney.
Also: I remember attending camp the year that Quinn made the leap to dominance. He looked poised to break out. He was “in the zone”. His ability just leaped out at you.
Well Jenkins, Ogletree and Brockers all seemed to be in that same zone. I don’t know how much weight Brockers has lost, or how it will effect his ability to hold up at NT, but he is looking like he’s ready to blow up.
Ogletree looks comfortable, and cut. He is practicing faster, having fun and looks like a different player. I think he comes out of the gate playing his best football yet.Jenkins was all over anyone lined up against him. He seemed much more physical and focused. No trash talking, just wet blanket coverage and had great position all day.
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