"Build the Wall" chants at Football game

TSRF wrote:

A little background here; Wilton is very rich, very white suburban town. Danbury is a typical Connecticut city; ethnically diverse and poor. I’m interested how yous in other areas of the country view this.

http://www.thehour.com/news/article/Chants-of-build-a-wall-at-football-game-10620733.php

Chants of ‘build a wall’ at football game stir controversy in Wilton
By Pat Tomlinson Updated 5:19 pm, Thursday, November 17, 2016

WILTON — Post-election tensions boiled over at last week’s Wilton-Danbury football game when a group of students started a “build a wall” chant — a favorite line of President-elect Donald Trump.
Days after the incident, Wilton High School Principal Robert O’Donnell addressed the controversy in a letter home to parents on Wednesday.
“It is true that a small number of students did chant this phrase during the game,” wrote O’Donnell. “The students involved in the chanting denied offensive intent, but we recognize that many will feel offended by this particular phrase.”
“We recognize that sentiments continue to run high post-election; as educators, our mission is to help students create dialogue and understanding around controversy and contention. As a result, we will use this incident as a teachable moment, and foster discussion around the rights and corresponding responsibilities inherent in members of a civil society,” he wrote.
Danbury Mayor Mark Boughton on Thursday agreed the incident was a teachable moment and said the lesson would best be learned if the offenders made an apology.
“This is deeply offensive to our community and to our students,” Boughton said. “Whatever the motivation of these students was, if you want them to learn something, they should apologize.”
Boughton on Thursday sent a formal letter to O’Donnell requesting an apology to the Danbury community.
“Part of becoming a citizen and an engaged member of our community is knowing how and when to communicate our beliefs, whether they be political or otherwise,” Boughton wrote. “As educators, we both know the importance of civic responsibility; part of that responsibility is accountability for our actions. Therefore, I respectfully request a formal apology to our student body and to our community at large.”
Wilton High School’s student government later issued an apology on behalf of the student body.
In the letter, the students claimed that though the chant was being “solely used to cheer on the football team’s defense,” the student body does not condone any “politically and socially insensitive behavior.”
“All in all, while we do not believe this behavior is representative of the students as a whole… we do believe it needs to be addressed in a more serious manner so that the entirety of Wilton High School knows that offensive behavior is intolerable,” they wrote.
In the wake of the incident, Connecticut Regional Director Steve Ginsburg of the Anti-Defamation League has reached out to the school’s leadership.
“I can tell you that they are taking it seriously,” Ginsburg said. “We’re focused, like the school is, on ensuring that this is a learning experience and that those who were hurt and offended receive the appropriate apologies.”
Though the incident has caused some hurt within the small community, events like these haven’t been isolated to Wilton, Ginsburg said.
“There have been similar incidents around the country, so we’re obviously concerned about this moment in time where we’re seeing people who are not choosing their words with the kindness and respect towards others like we would hope,” Ginsburg said.
Earlier this month, a private Staples High School Facebook group of about 200 students began circulating offensive and defamatory memes pertaining to gender, race and religion. The group was taken down after it was called to the attention of the administration on Nov. 7.
Keeping school environments positive have been especially difficult recently in the wake of the election between Trump and Democrat Hillary Clinton.
According to a report from The Detroit News, students at Royal Oak Middle School in Michigan started chanting “Build that wall,” a day after Trump was elected — a reference to Trump’s pledge to build a wall between the United States and Mexico to stop the flow of illegal immigration.
The Washington Post and other news organizations reported and posted video about an incident in which two students carried a Trump campaign sign through the hallways at York County School in Pennsylvania as another student, according to police, shouted, “white power.”
On the campaign trail, Trump stirred up support from white nationalists, prompting others to fear his tenure. He also called for a ban on Muslims entering the country.
Since the Wilton incident, outraged alumni have since reached out to O’Donnell via a change.org petition, calling for the principal to take a harder stance against chants of this nature, which they call “an act of bigotry and racism.”

There are incidents like this all over the country, though of course not limited to chants at sporting events. Southern Poverty Law Center keeps track of some of them.

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch

It’s around 400 that they could get journalistic validation on. Which actually is not that many considering, but still this usually does not happen after elections.

On a personal note, my sister-in-law is iranian. Her father (Mike) lives in Arizona and has been getting regularly harassed. You know, anti-muslim, anti-immigrant stuff. The irony is, he was a general in the Shah’s air force and came to the USA to escape what would happen to him in the Ayatollah’s regime. The further irony is, I have no love for the Shah’s regime–it was brutal beyond belief–though I always avoided talking to Mike about it. And of course I have no love for the present Iranian regime either. Mike is getting harassed because of his looks and his accent and the fact that he’s a practicing muslim.

What is there to get butt sore about? How was anyone harmed? How could anyone take offense? Nowhere in the article is it stated that the Danbury team or community is populated by illegals so what is there to take offense to? Those students should not apologize and the Student Council should start standing on principle rather than rubber stamping the snowflake principal’s whim. Time to put on the big boy pants because things are going to change for the better and fast. Time to get used to not getting your way when you cry the longest and loudest making a complete ass of yourself coasties.

it’s pretty despicable behavior. if my kid was doing that i’d be embarrassed and infuriated beyond belief.

i don’t know how one couldn’t be.

Just a note sort of off topic.

I went by Trump Tower yesterday in a cab. I believe this part of 5th avenue is closed when he’s there, not sure. Anyway–there were about 30 protesters and it was COLD! That’s dedication. There was also heavily armed police presence around the building. If Trump indeed spends part time at Trump Tower or other places, the security detail will cost the taxpayers a pretty penny. And New Yorkers will have a traffic headache. They shut down Lincoln tunnel the other day during rush hour when he went to New Jersey.

zn wrote:

Sometimes the “depends on what it means to you” game goes too far off the tracks.

—————-
Well my ‘own’ subjective, personal, intuition is in alignment with what you seem to think. So in that sense we are in accord. However my main point stands — Its all contested ideological ground. There were many chanters, each meaning ‘something’ and there are many ‘interpreters’ interpreting the meaning in various ways, all colored by individual politics. There’s no way around that.

w
v

zn wrote:

wv wrote:

zn wrote:

Sometimes the “depends on what it means to you” game goes too far off the tracks.

—————-
Well my ‘own’ subjective, personal, intuition is in alignment with what you seem to think. So in that sense we are in accord. However my main point stands — Its all contested ideological ground. There were many chanters, each meaning ‘something’ and there are many ‘interpreters’ interpreting the meaning in various ways, all colored by individual politics. There’s no way around that.

w
v

There are different interpreters but then, some arguments are better than others.

I really believe what I say…the Wilmont kids were using an attack phrase aimed at the kids who are more likely than they are to suffer any negative effects of immigration. So much for supporting the poor.

It’s as if healthy kids were shouting “hey we have health insurance you losers don’t” to a bunch of kids on crutches.

..

————-
Well again, my own view is in accord with that view. But i look at it like its more of a ‘best guess” at what some but probly not all the chanters ‘meant’.

w
v

Wilton 6-3 league record

Danbury 2-7 league record

Wilton won the game 28-0

more on the fine culture of Wilton HS……

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilton_High_School

In 2007, the state of Connecticut enacted legislation preventing physical restraint or seclusion of special needs students except in limited situations,[15] largely as a result of allegations of mistreatment of four special education students in Wilton High School and other Wilton schools in 2005.[16][17] Jill Ely claimed that, without notifying her,

[17][18] Gloria Bass, the grandmother of two special needs students, also said that one child had been restrained for months in a storage closet without her knowledge.[17][18] Superintendent Gary Richards defended the schools’ actions saying: “We do the best we can with kids who sometimes are very challenged.”[17]

In March 2007, a controversy arose which achieved national prominence when Principal Timothy Canty, on the objection of a student, cancelled an original student play by an advanced theater class concerning the Iraq War, a project he had originally approved. He justified his action by claiming it “might hurt Wilton families ‘who had lost loved ones or who had individuals serving as we speak,’ and that there was not enough classroom and rehearsal time to ensure it would provide ‘a legitimate instructional experience for our students.’”[19] The play, “Voices in Conflict”, had been written and produced by students under the direction of 13-year English teacher Bonnie Dickinson. It was supposed to have been performed in school during the day. School officials, including Superintendent Gary Richards, notwithstanding national attention over the cancellation and a letter protesting it signed by Stephen Sondheim, Edward Albee, Christopher Durang, John Guare, and John Patrick Shanley, refused to allow the production to be performed at the school.

Theater groups rallied to the students’ defense, and the play was subsequently performed at the Fairfield Theatre Company, The Vineyard Theatre, The Culture Project, and The Public Theater.[20] The play was produced for Connecticut Public Television, and Bonnie Dickinson became the official 2007 Honoree of the National Coalition Against Censorship and the winner of the Connecticut Center for First Amendment Rights 2007 “Freedom Award.”[21]

In 2013, after the Wilton Board of Finance returned its proposed budget with instructions to reduce it by $750,000, the Board of Education voted to impose “pay-to-play” fees on all athletics and school clubs, with a fee of up to $100 per sport and $50 per club.[22]

In 2016, the night of Friday, Nov. 11, the Wilton High School football team played against Danbury High School at Fujitani Field[23] and a group of Wilton students were heard chanting “build the wall” — a phrase commonly heard at Donald Trump’s presidential campaign rallies in reference to a wall[24] he has publicly stated he wants to build at the United States-Mexico border to keep immigrants from coming into the country. Minority enrollment at Wilton High School is around 12%,[25] however minorities make up more than half of Danbury High School’s student body and a high number are Hispanic.[26] Nov.17, the Mayor of Danbury, Mark Boughton, issued a request asking that Wilton High School publically apologize.[27] They did.

nittany ram wrote:

— X — wrote:

The alternative is to just drop immigration policies altogether and let whoever wants to come across illegally, do just that. If they’re terrorists, or drug dealers, or violent criminals, or looking for government welfare, then fine. Everybody come over and destroy and/or pillage this great Country in the interest of political correctness and “love”.

I don’t know if you’re aware of this X, but
illegal immigration really isn’t an issue currently. It’s been used by Trump and other Republicans to whip the masses into a frenzy but the number of illegal immigrants in the US is shrinking and has been for several years.

Link: http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/

Its NIMBY for you but I assure you it is a big problem south of the Mason-Dixon Line, especially border states.

— X — wrote:

I don’t know if you’re aware of this X, but
illegal immigration really isn’t an issue currently. It’s been used by Trump and other Republicans to whip the masses into a frenzy but the number of illegal immigrants in the US is shrinking and has been for several years.

Link: http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/

Shrinking from nearly 13,000,000? Well that’s nice. There’s still the issue of the fiscal cost of unlawful immigrants and amnesty to the U.S. taxpayer. Unless or until that’s a net zero, then there’s still an issue.

Well, it’s actually about 11 million now. And there are pros to having them around too. They are a vital component of many industries and US agriculture would completely collapse without them. According to Harvard economist Jorge Borjas, the net worth of the average American has actually increased because of them.

Also, they generate about $12 billion dollars per year in Social Security taxes and about $11 billion per year in state and local taxes.

Crime rates among undocumented workers are lower than they are for the average US citizen.

And there’s more. There are cons as well but overall I think the country is better off with them.

• This reply was modified 8 years ago by nittany ram.

nittany ram wrote:

Well, it’s actually about 11 million now. And there are pros to having them around too. They are a vital component of many industries and US agriculture would completely collapse without them. According to Harvard economist Jorge Borjas, the net worth of the average American has actually increased because of them.

Also, they generate about $12 billion dollars per year in Social Security taxes and about $11 billion per year in state and local taxes.

Crime rates among undocumented workers are lower than they are for the average US citizen.

And there’s more. There are cons as well but overall I think the country is better off with them.

I know it’s around 11M now. That’s why I made the quip of ‘down from 13M?’. IMO, the cons outweigh the pros. Gains from immigrants largely go to immigrants, because their contribution to the aggregate economy doesn’t produce a net benefit to the native-born population. They get tons of aid from the gubmint. And while crime rates are lower than they are for the average US citizen, is it proportionate? And why would it be acceptable for even ONE undocumented worker (illegal immigrant) to commit crimes on our soil?

That border isn’t “arbitrary” as a lot of blood was spilled securing it.

nittany ram wrote:

Well for me, I try to put myself in their shoes. Would I enter a country illegally so that I could feed my family…
….I’m not going to deny them the chance to get just a little taste of what I have and enjoy. And what I have is largely due to me being born on the right side of that same arbitrary border.

=================

Yeah, that is what i always think about. And it leads me into a foggy mess
that i cant find my way out of.

I mean I dont ‘identify’ as “an American” (even though i recognize i have been influenced and imprinted by this place and time, etc)

I identify as an ‘earthling’. A being-of-the-Biosphere. 🙂

I dont like all this ‘my border vs your border’ tribal bullshit. It reminds me of Religions and Race and all the other primitive ways human-systems have created “us versus them” constructs. Systems create “the others” and then dehumanize them, blah blah blah.

I hate it.

But then that view of mine does not lead me to any simple answers to the question of “should everyone just be allowed to move to the USA or North Korea or anywhere they want on the Planet, and how would that work…etc…?

w
v
”I am not an Athenian or a Greek, I am a citizen of the world. ~Socrates

“I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth, and I am a citizen of the world. ~Eugene V. Debs

“Can anything be stupider than that a man has the right to kill me because he lives on the other side of a river and his ruler has a quarrel with mine, though I have not quarrelled with him? ~Blaise Pascal, quoted by Tolstoy in Bethink Yourselves

Patriots always talk of dying for their country, and never of killing for their country. B.Russell

A nation is a society united by a delusion about its ancestry and by common hatred of its neighbours. ~William R. Inge
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. ~Albert Einstein, The World As I See It, 1934

To him in whom love dwells, the whole world is but one family. ~Buddha

It is not easy to see how the more extreme forms of nationalism can long survive when men have seen the Earth in its true perspective as a single small globe against the stars. ~Arthur C. Clarke

====

wv wrote:

I identify as an ‘earthling’. A being-of-the-Biosphere.

I dont like all this ‘my border vs your border’ tribal bullshit. It reminds me of Religions and Race and all the other primitive ways human-systems have created “us versus them” constructs. Systems create “the others” and then dehumanize them, blah blah blah.

I hate it.

But then that view of mine does not lead me to any simple answers to the question of “should everyone just be allowed to move to the USA or North Korea or anywhere they want on the Planet, and how would that work…etc…?

w
v

You identify only as an ‘Earthling’?

I take it you don’t feel any kinship with the sentient slime mold of Alpha Seti 6 then?

See, I identify not as an earthling but as a Multiversian – a title that encompasses all the universes and the infinite number of dimensions in existence and even some of those that don’t exist.

I guess I’m just not limited by an archaic tribal mentality like you are.

Seriously though, I feel exactly the same way. I think people should be free to move around the planet as they wish, with the exception being into environmentally sensitive areas. But I’m not sure how that would work either.

We’ve talked about this stuff before when contemplating mankind’s future. Some thought that a utopian ‘Star Trekian’ future where all the peoples of the world are united by their humanity under one benevolent government was likely. Others thought that mankind would likely be extinct along with most of the planet’s other megafauna within 200 years.

I’m in the latter camp.