Anybody watching Game of Thones?

The Ending of Game of Thrones

<Warning – spoilers galore if you are not up to date>

I always knew, deep down, that Game of Thrones (GOT) would not have a happy ending. Once Ned Stark got his head cut off at the end of the first book/season, I think everyone knew this was a different kind of fantasy story. I read the books first, and as I did it became clear that I was reading a tragedy and a horror story, not heroic fantasy.

I have a few thoughts I would like to share as the last episode of the series is ready to air. The people I watch the show with had a range of reactions to the second-to-last episode, but I think it was completely consistent with the story George R.R. Martin has been telling us all along. He has been deconstructing the medieval fairy tale right in front of our eyes, hitting us over the head with the reality that we already know. It’s interesting how difficult it can be for many to just accept that.

The final delusion was that Martin would bring it all back home. In the end the heroes would defeat evil, a good person would sit on the throne, and a golden age would dawn – it’s the Lord of the Rings ending. But come on – didn’t we all know this story was not LOTR?

First, the Night King, the White Walkers, and their army of the dead was always a side show, even if it was the most captivating. Most of the series has focused on the title action – a game of thrones. I liken the Night King to a natural disaster – it’s looming in the background, some are warning of it, but mostly people ignore it while they focus on their short term politics. In the end we are really not prepared when the disaster finally arrives. The living actuality lly straight-up lose the battle of Winterfell. (Don’t get me started on the terrible battle tactics: opening with a frontal cavalry charge, putting your troops outside your own choke point, and not opening with a sustained artillery bombardment, etc. – but that’s a side point.)

I think the lesson there is that death comes for all of us, and the best we can really do when we confront it is to either say, “not today,” or to face it bravely. Somehow life manages to keep crawling forward. It’s like the Plague, in the end it’s a distraction from what we are really interested in, our political battles.

Getting back to the eponymous main story, Martin has, through his characters, pretty much told us directly how this world works. It is brutal and heartless. Power is all that matters – power through wealth, ruthless cunning, personal prowess, and force of arms. If you think about every character arc in the story, the more brutal and selfish they are, the more they succeed. The more kind, honorable, and trusting they are, the more the world chews them up and destroys them.

Take almost any character – Tyrion used to be much more cynical, and earned a reputation for being cunning and ruthless when he had to be (as Daenerys recently noted). As he has become more and more concerned with the populace, with being a good person, the more hapless he has become. All this has earned him was a string of failures. Arya succeeded because she became a deadly assassin. Sansa went from a naive girl to a savvy politician.

There are some good people in the world (Davos, Brienne) but they are generally at the mercy of those in power. They have no personal ambitions, really, and try to stay in the background serving others.

You survive in a brutal world by being brutal. The world hardens your heart, or it kills you. The other thing you do to survive is to cling to those around you, your family, your people. Don’t trust outsiders. The point is made many times. The North doesn’t trust southerners. Jamie says all the horrible things he did he did for his family, with no regrets, and he’d do it again. In the end he had a choice between the honorable Brienne and family, and he chose his sister. Even Tyrion chose to save his remaining family in the end. The Starks reestablished their power and defeated their foes by staying loyal to each other. Theon realized in the end the Starks were his real family, and his tragic failure was in betraying that.

So how does one win the game of thrones? I think Martin is trying to say that you don’t. The game itself is broken. At best you can have temporary success, if you are able to climb on top of enough other people, but your success is never stable. In order to maintain power you need to perpetuate the brutality and inherent injustice of the system.

The Targaryens were able to unite and rule Westeros because they had dragons – the ultimate military power in this world (as we just saw again in the latest episode). When the dragons died out, their downfall was inevitable. Daenerys can only reestablish Targaryen rule by bringing back the dragons. The Lannisters were a powerful house because of their gold mines. When they dried up, their days were numbered.

What is interesting is that as viewers of this show, from our 21st century Western vantage point, we know this world is broken. The answer is not to put a relatively benign brutal dictator on the throne. Daenerys said it herself – her goal is not to win a turn of the wheel, but to break the wheel. Unfortunately, she did not do that. She just gave it history’s most brutal turn. She convinced herself that to save future generations, she had to burn this one to the ground.

There are only the faintest glimmers of a real solution in the world. The Brothers without Banners are onto something by disavowing all feudal ties. Sandor Clegane (the Hound) recognizes that all knights and nobles are “c@#nts”, and wants no part of it. We come to respect this initially villainous character because he gives us a rare glimpse of someone who realizes the world is broken. He doesn’t have a solution, however, just personal vengeance and more cynicism.

Varys is genuinely concerned for the people, but his solution is to support the best brutal dictator. Even Jon Snow, perhaps the best of them, condones capital punishment for minors, leads thousands of his soldiers to their death because someone pissed him off, and is OK supporting a queen who immolates those who don’t bend the knee to her. To him honor is being the one to personally swing the sword when you order someone’s death for, say, abandoning their post.

There isn’t a single truly virtuous ruler by modern standards in this story. Just shades of gray.

What Westeros needs is a revolution. They need a philosophy of enlightenment, a Magna Carta, something that truly breaks the wheel of totalitarian rule. They need to replace the rule of men with the rule of law. That is their only hope. This is why the rule of law is so precious – a fitting lesson for this time, and perhaps any time.

The totalitarian rule of people has no happy fairy tale ending. Deep down we all know that. We all saw this coming. Martin told us directly countless times in the telling of this story. But still, we want the fairy tale. We want the good guys to win in the end. But Martin is making a strong point – in this system, one ruled by the game of thrones, there are no good guys. There are relatively more or less brutal people, and the more brutal people tend to succeed over time.

This story was always a tragedy.

zn wrote:

nittany ram wrote:

This story was always a tragedy.

I think it’s a comedy of errors about incompetent military tactics. For example if you are going to defend a walled city against dragons by relying on “scorpion” ballistas, then, don’t just put them on the walls where they can be attacked from behind from the air. Put some on high points inside the city in groups of 4 facing every direction.

See I knew that. Why didn’t they know that.

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Ah, but that’s also part of what makes it a tragedy.

If they had deployed the scorpions as you suggest, Darnerys and Drogo would be dead, the relatively benevolent Cercei would still be queen, and about 8 or 9 hundred thousand innocent people would still be alive.

I have been massively disappointed in this season. Frankly, I think they blew 7 seasons bnb of great television. I get thT they wanted to end it–to wrap things up, and clearly they are in a hurry to do it. That alone has hurt the show.

But beyond that it feels like a different show.

The plot set up things that just never really happened for what? Random outcomes? And I am not talking about Dany really…although rushing her along weakened her story and diminished her as a character.

Jon Snow has been essentially forgotten. The guy who was set up as a sort of messiah is basically a supporting player.

The writers have been obsessed with the Arya story for some time but I had ko idea how obsessed they were with the character. She has become the star.

But why?

The show frustrates me. There was such potential.

I do think Dany’s destiney is correct. Tyrian is just useless these days. Jon Snow may as well have stayed dead. Jamie an Cerci….okay but man that felt like a 40s romance cliche. With brother and sister of course.

I could go on and on.

On the positive side?

I liked the Hound’s story.

The Queen is dead…

Jaime’s fight with Euron was good.

Predictions, anyone?

Of course, I’m very likely to be wrong on this, but what the hey.

Arya goes after Daenarys for her last assassination. She succeeds, but Drogon retaliates and kills her, then flies off into the sunset.

Jon refuses the throne. Sasha wins the Game of Thrones. Last scene: we see Sasha enter King’s Landing with a small retinue, determined to rebuild the city. Tyrion is her Hand. Brienne her protector.

Off the top of me head, can’t think of any other essential loose ends to tie up. I think the last episode did most of that for all the “secondary” characters and their arcs. If it were the LOTR, of course, it would be orcs.

Thoughts?

I got caught up on the last two episodes, so I’m current now.

Given what I’ve already said — ie, that the season was ruined because of the six-episode-limitation– I thought the last two episodes were ok. Considering.

I thought the burning of the city was a good plot idea and i thought they executed it well. Though of course everything was ‘rushed’.

Prettymuch everything to do with the dragons has been outstanding, imho. Props to the CGI folks. The wolves on the other hand have not been nearly as effective or believable. How is it that they can make dragons look more realistic than dire wolves?

For me the weakest plot-points in the last two episodes were:
1) Tyrian is STILL trying to reason with Circe. Really? A smart, crafty, guy like Tyrian is THAT dum? Really? It made him look stupid after building him up as smart. Hi killed his father but he still has a soft spot for Circe? Enh.
2) Jamies quick turnaround. Why in the world would he all-of-a-sudden feel like going back to Circe? Why? I mean…why? Did sleeping with Brianne awaken his love for Circe? I dunno. Seemed weak to me.

Strong scenes. — Unlike some folks i talked to, I liked the final scene with Jamie/Circe. I thought it was a good, satisfying way for them to die. Underneath the crumbling, burning, crashing building. Worked for me. Much better than watching Drogon burn them, or Arya stab them, etc. Are we sure they are dead btw?

Arya scenes — I liked the scenes of Arya in the burning, apocalyptic city. And even finding the horse, was fine with me. Worked for me.

Mixed reaction — I had mixed reactions to two scenes. The big battle tween the Hound and the Mountain. It always seemed a bit contrived to me, that they were headed for a final battle. I almost wished the writers would have had one killed prematurely just to avoid the obvious. So for me, the whole thing was bound to feel a bit contrived. And it did. But having said that, it was an ok battle. I thought they did a pretty good job of making it somewhat interesting. (though if i see one more sword battle on stairs Im gonna stab myself in the head with a pencil). I thought the ending of their battle was a good touch.

I also had mixed feelings about the Euron vs Jamie fight. I’m not sure why. It worked and it didnt work. I dunno. I do know that the internet (and me) just dont like Euron, and I’m not quite sure why. He brings humor to the ‘bad guy’ role — does that bother us for some reason? He’s actually a more believable and honest ‘bad guy’ than many of the others. Why does he bother so many of us? I dunno.

People often ask ‘who is going to win the throne’ but in the end, I dont think most of us give a shit about ‘that’. I think we are more interested in what happens to our favorite characters. And frankly, John and the Dragon Queen are not favorite-characters for most of us. Are they?
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wv wrote:

Well damn. I dont even get it. Whats it have to do with GOT?

Nothing, posted it in the wrong thread. Sorry!

It’s a comment on the new anti-abortion bill in Alabama.

Atwood, writer of the Handmaid’s Tale, one ups Orwell.

someone sent me this one. thot it was purty good:

Ahead of the finale, a Game of Thrones quiz, from the Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/quiz/2015/apr/11/game-of-thrones-quiz

When Tyrion found his brother and sister under the rubble…… I thought Jamie was going to wake up and ask “what took you so long?”

wv wrote:

with advertising and all?

No ads on HBO.

I suppose they could paint “Buy Chevrolet” on a dragon’s wings.

Agamemnon wrote:

In one of the vids they said HBO wanted 10 episodes, but the writers wanted 6. That must have been around the time the writers went mad and killed all the innocents. I think they wanted to spend all their budget on Special Effects.

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Well, i think Game of Thrones should have been nationalized.

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