Another Trump-voter analysis article

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  • #90342
    wv
    Participant

    Here’s another in a long line of Trump-voter articles. I think it, like the rest of em, misses a big part of the picture. I dont disagree with the part the article talks about, but the article omits a big part of the puzzle. And i think that omitted part is simply that to many voters Trump is “the lesser evil.” They know he’s corrupt. But they know the establishment-system is corrupt too. And to them the establishment is MORE corrupt. I rarely see articles from the Dem-MSM that recognize that Trump voters are seeing quite clearly that the system is indeed a swamp. They are right about that. They never get credit for that though. Cause to give them credit for that would bring the entire MSM into question…blah blah blah.

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    v

    ========================
    Trump-Voter analysis:https://portside.org/2018-08-25/why-trump-supporters-believe-he-not-corrupt

    “…The answer may lie in how Trump and his supporters define corruption. In a forthcoming book titled How Fascism Works, the Yale philosophy professor Jason Stanley makes an intriguing claim. “Corruption, to the fascist politician,” he suggests, “is really about the corruption of purity rather than of the law. Officially, the fascist politician’s denunciations of corruption sound like a denunciation of political corruption. But such talk is intended to evoke corruption in the sense of the usurpation of the traditional order.”

    Fox’s decision to focus on the Iowa murder rather than Cohen’s guilty plea illustrates Stanley’s point. In the eyes of many Fox viewers, I suspect, the network isn’t ignoring corruption so much as highlighting the kind that really matters. When Trump instructed Cohen to pay off women with whom he’d had affairs, he may have been violating the law. But he was upholding traditional gender and class hierarchies….”

    #90348
    zn
    Moderator

    Yes but then the question is, why do they see TRUMP as the lesser evil.

    Because from any objective measure I can think of that accounts for working people (all classes including middle) and their interests, he is NOT the lesser evil.

    He is the WORST of the evils.

    He only ISN’T if you think the problem is people of color, immigration, and so on.

    #90492
    waterfield
    Participant

    I think the answer to the “why” is that people are generally unhappy. And they think that the mantra happiness comes from themselves and not outside is pure BS. They’ve been taught that the more you can accumulate the happier you will be. So when we accumulate but are still unhappy we look to the biggest target we can find for the cause of our unhappiness-and naturally that’s the government. I know many, many people who believe Trump is an immoral and unbalanced ass hole but voted for him and will vote for him again because “someone needed to shake up the system”-namely the government. And there can be no question the guy is doing just that. The more nonsense he tweets the more people can identify with him because that is precisely what they would do. Simply put, people just want someone that will make them happy like they “think” they were years ago. And of course the evil clown promises to do just that. And people don’t care about the “evil” part if he can make them happy.

    Unfortunately, I think were in bed with this guy until he terms out. Unless we figure out a way to make the average Joe feel good about himself. Its not Trump that’s wrong here its us.

    #90505
    zn
    Moderator

    Republicans grapple with Trump’s vise grip on their base

    KATIE GLUECK

    https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/white-house/article217869125.html

    His approval numbers are underwater and his polarizing presidency is endangering dozens of House Republicans. But when it comes to motivating GOP voters, nobody is more effective than President Donald Trump.

    After watching him successfully intercede in primary after primary this summer, Republican candidates now face an agonizing general-election dilemma: They need Trump’s help mobilizing conservative voters but worry that embracing the president might destroy their standing with independents in the process.

    “His support among the Republican base brings a level of intensity that is unrivaled, at least in recent history,” said Ken Spain, a former top official at the National Republican Congressional Committee. “That’s the conundrum that many Republican candidates are facing across the country: how do you captivate and mobilize the Republican base while trying to win over independent voters? So far, that has been a very difficult balancing act.”

    Trump’s ability to move GOP votes when his name isn’t on the ballot was once in doubt. But this summer changed that, according to strategists, pollsters and donors who watched Trump endorse in a host of recent primaries, going on a winning streak in places as diverse as a congressional primary on New York’s blue-collar Staten Island and a gubernatorial primary in culturally conservative Kansas.

    Citing internal polling, strategists involved in many of those races say Trump’s endorsements played a critical role in shaping the outcome — evidence of just how potent his support is with rank-and-file Republicans, even as it also risks galvanizing the other side.

    “The ability to totally, single-handedly swing an election is kind of terrifying, but it’s reality,” said one GOP strategist who has been involved in several gubernatorial contests across the country, and who like many sources interviewed for this story declined to discuss internal polling and strategy on the record. “It’s the president’s party, at least for the foreseeable future, and we’re all just attending.”

    The final vote count took days, and the Colyer campaign said at the time that it had “consistently led in mail-in ballots statewide in this election.” But ultimately, Kobach eked out a victory—and political operatives who watched the race closely think Trump’s endorsement had something to do with it.

    “If you look at Election Day voting versus early voting, it obviously was profoundly different,” said the GOP source involved in governors’ races. “I don’t know what else to chalk that up to but the Trump endorsement.”

    On Staten Island earlier this summer, some public polls showed former Rep. Michael Grimm ahead of incumbent Rep. Dan Donovan as each competed to be the most pro-Trump candidate. Trump sided with Donovan.

    “Where it really had an impact was with those who said…‘At the end of the day, the president says Donovan’s the guy,’” said a Donovan adviser who said the congressman ended up overperforming internal polling estimates. “That was the difference between a close race and what turned out to be a pretty commanding victory.”

    The numbers were even more stark in gubernatorial contests in Florida and Georgia.

    The day that Trump endorsed Georgia Secretary of State Brian Kemp in a primary runoff, his opponent, Lt. Gov. Casey Cagle, plummeted, according to internal numbers from the pro-Cagle camp. He never recovered, dropping from a lead to a nearly 40-percentage point loss in a matter of days.

    And in Florida, Rep. Ron DeSantis trailed Florida Agriculture Commissioner Adam Putnam in the gubernatorial primary earlier this summer, according to some data. But after Trump reiterated his support for DeSantis on Twitter—and the congressman played up the endorsement in ads—he pulled ahead, polls showed, and he defeated Putnam by 20 percentage points last week.

    Certainly, Trump has also endorsed candidates who appeared to be ahead anyway. And in other races where he has intervened—a special election in Ohio’s heavily suburban 12th district, for example—the contests have sometimes been competitive largely because Trump has dragged down GOP candidates in the first place, and has motivated the Democratic base to turn out in anger.

    Indeed, outside of primaries, Trump has endorsed in a host of special elections in traditionally conservative territory that his party has gone on to lose, from Alabama to western Pennsylvania, a warning for the general election that firing up the base, even with Trump’s help, might not be enough in a tough environment for Republicans.

    “We’re going to learn a hard lesson,” said the GOP strategist involved in governors’ races. “I hope I’m wrong, but I think it’s possible we learn the hard lesson that a base is not enough to win a general election.”

    But for the many candidates Trump has boosted in primary season, their fates are now intertwined with his approval ratings as general election season arrives and they seek to court independents, said a major GOP donor who has been involved in races in which Trump has endorsed. After benefiting from Trump’s support in the primary, there is no avoiding that branding in the general.

    “Republican candidates are tied to Trump’s agenda and personality,” the donor said. “There’s no use for a Ron DeSantis or a John James [the Trump-backed Michigan GOP Senate nominee] to run from Trump. They need to embrace him and hope that he’s at a high enough general election number, which probably means around 50 percent, that they can then win on a localized race. But there’s no way they escape from him.”

    And they shouldn’t try, argued John McLaughlin, whose firm is involved in House races and who did polling for Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign. He noted that the Republican-held Congress hasn’t followed through on core campaign promises such as repealing Obamacare, disappointing many conservative voters. To keep the Republican base engaged, candidates across the board need to tap into Trump, he said.

    “The Republican majority in Congress has not passed a lot of things that are popular,” he said. “That’s where the trouble is with reelecting House [members], getting more Senate seats. The president is picking them up, they’re standing on his shoulders.”

    #90525
    wv
    Participant

    Yes but then the question is, why do they see TRUMP as the lesser evil.

    Because from any objective measure I can think of that accounts for working people (all classes including middle) and their interests, he is NOT the lesser evil.

    He is the WORST of the evils.

    He only ISN’T if you think the problem is people of color, immigration, and so on.

    =========================

    Well my short-answer is because this, swamp-system, this dirty-rotten-system (to quote Dorothy Day) has dummed-down and damaged the voters so much that they dont have the ‘political IQ’ to evaluate corporate-capitalism or economics in general and the dirty-rotten-system has also reduced their compassion in general, and thus the racism, sexism, immigration-izm, etc.

    The system has destroyed the people and they will probly now destroy the system. Or the Biosphere. Or both.

    Have a nice day.

    w
    v

    #90543
    waterfield
    Participant

    Well-I think that’s pretty much what I’m saying about people and their being simpleminded. And not ALL people just those who hate the guy but would vote for Hitler if he promised to “shake things up”. The scary part for me is that there are so many more people that I ever thought were like that. However, unlike you I don’t think the “system” has dumb downed these people -we’ve done it to ourselves w/o the help of government. Whether its a lack of education, poor parenting, television (that’s my favorite), etc its not the big bad ole government. To blame government is really no different than the simple minded who just want someone “to shake things up”. They point the same finger to the same object that you do-big, bad government.

    Another factor is that we’ve come to love and hopefully identify with people who “talk tough”. And that’s where I blame television. We don’t care if the tough talker actually accomplishes anything-just that they speak forcefully. America is about being tough-hence football is still the number one sport we follow. And our sense of wanting to be “tough” isn’t just associated with males. It’s gender free. Maybe even more so with women. Compare that with other countries and the sports that seem to attract their population. People look back and say “hey we’ve never had a President who talks tough like a football player-and I like that kind of strength-he’s not a wimpy Obama”. But the “simple minded don’t see that as an actual weakness-as I do. No WV- government hasn’t created people like that-we’ve done it to ourselves. And guess who recognized this from long ago-Steve Bannon.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 1 month ago by waterfield.
    #90546
    waterfield
    Participant

    P.S. Guess what male portrayal in the history of television is by far the most popular-still today.

    The Marlboro Man. In a stupid commercial and not for the smoking of a cigarette but for what the actor represented. I can’t blame government for the Marlboro Man-although I do see a corporate influence at work. But were it not for the American public’s “need” for the character I doubt it would have worked. We’ve always wanted and needed toughness. Especially bad ass toughness where the tough guy ain’t all that moral or sympathetic for the plight of others. (i.e. Clint Eastwood, etc-we adore these guys-and football too-that’s America)

    End of story.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 1 month ago by waterfield.
    #90561
    PA Ram
    Participant

    I am beyond caring anything about the Trump voter.

    Part of his base is racist. Period. They may not wear white hoods but they have racist inclinations. Not all of them. But it’s there. They are ruled by fear of becoming the minority. That has nothing to do with government corruption. They’ll take that as long as it’s THEIR guy and he’s keeping the brown people out. I couldn’t care less about them.

    Part of them are conspiracy nuts. They’ve been primed to see this deep state stuff forever, through talk radio and webcasts like Infowars. They were all in on Obama’s birth certificate and pizzagate and you name it.

    And they too, do not care about government corruption as long as it’s THEIR guy.

    Trump is the most corrupt politician in history. They aren’t voting for any swamp draining.

    Some are evangelicals just wanting to overturn abortion. These people care about one issue and could care very little about anything else. Trump is giving them their judges. Good enough.

    His money supporters want deregulation. That’s all. He’s getting it done.

    There is a slice who liked his NAFTA scorn or his talk about not being as involved in foreign countries. Okay–but he simply increased military spending. Just renegotiating a trade deal in meaningless without environmental protections(his plan there is to make our own environmental regulations non-existent instead of bring others to our standards) or labor issues and we know he hates unions anyway.

    So I don’t care what their “reasons” were. They need to be ignored and beaten by a majority in places where it matters. The Democrats suck at politics. They need a REALLY bad opponent to win—-and they have one now. And we have to wonder if it’s still enough.

    The majority of Americans voted for Clinton. The majority voted for Gore. So what? They have to win state houses. They have to win governor races. They have to win the electoral college and not stupidly just skip states because you think you will win no matter what. The minority has more power than the majority. In less populated rural states they still get two senators.

    Democrats have to run on filling the courts like the Republicans do because unfortunately Dems don’t seem to care about it. And it will bite us in the ass for decades now. Even if they pass progressive legislation it can be challenged and overturned. Dems need to put way more emphasis on these things. The Republicans are masters at it. They even have the Federalist Society pre-picking candidates. The Dems have nothing.

    Trump and the Republicans are fortunate to be playing against the Washington Generals.

    But the majority has to carry them through this anyway. Because this is way beyond lesser of two evils. This is an epic disaster.

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

    #90573
    waterfield
    Participant

    yes-to all of that/

    #90604
    wv
    Participant

    there are so many more people that I ever thought were like that. However, unlike you I don’t think the “system” has dumb downed these people -we’ve done it to ourselves w/o the help of government..

    ===================

    Right. That is our big difference. I blame the system (not the government, but the ‘system’ which is essentially the marriage of the Mega-Corps and the Government) and you do not.

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    #90636
    waterfield
    Participant

    Oh I do blame the “system” for many things including our need to be at all cost “winners” and “better” than others.

    But I don’t blame the “system” for our inherent racism and bigotry. I don’t blame it for our lack of political critical thinking. I don’t blame it for our need for simple and quick answers to difficult issues. I don’t blame it for the rise of evangelical crusades in our country-hence Kavanaugh. And I believe it is just as simple minded to say that its all the fault of corporations as it is for the right to say its all the fault of big government. The difference is that the left looks at it like a hopeless machine whereas the right takes it as a call to arms and argues that its time to move against the government-NOW ! Which is precisely what brought the Tea Party and later the present Freedom Caucus into power.

    #90648
    wv
    Participant

    Oh I do blame the “system” for many things including our need to be at all cost “winners” and “better” than others.

    But I don’t blame the “system” for our inherent racism and bigotry.
    I don’t blame it for our lack of political critical thinking.
    I don’t blame it for our need for simple and quick answers to difficult issues.
    I don’t blame it for the rise of evangelical crusades in our country-hence Kavanaugh.
    .

    ===============

    Yes, we disagree. I do indeed blame the ‘system’ for those things. People ‘learn’ racism and bigotry. And in a different system I think they would learn the opposite of those things.
    Same for the other things you listed.

    Other systems also have spawned racism, bigotry, “the need for simple answers,” superstition, and “lack of political critical thinking.” So I’m not saying the US system is the only pathological anti-biosphere system. There are and have been others. The US is just the most powerful anti-biosphere system in existence.

    So yeah i blame pathological systems.

    I guess your view is more dark than mine maybe? You blame evil human nature?

    w
    v

    #90740
    waterfield
    Participant

    Darker? Maybe. Our fundamental difference lies in the fact I believe “we” share far more blame in what “we” have become than you do. Oh well. You need to get into surfing. One big fall inside a 40 ft break and you will come to my side.

    #90758
    wv
    Participant

    Darker? Maybe. Our fundamental difference lies in the fact I believe “we” share far more blame in what “we” have become than you do. Oh well. You need to get into surfing. One big fall inside a 40 ft break and you will come to my side.

    =================

    Well, I’m thinkin maybe I’ll start with 2 foot waves.

    Btw, I put Laird Hamilton super-food creamer in my coffee every morning.
    It makes my coffee “perform at a whole nother level” 🙂

    Yes, i use it.

    w
    v

    #90773
    waterfield
    Participant

    He’s a health Nazi-no question about that.

    I don’t know him but I’ve read the book about him (can’t remember the name-was written by a woman) and seen his interviews like the one you attached-and I can’t say I would like to sit down and have a beer with the guy. So there’s that.

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