The Kashoggi thing

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  • This topic has 8 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 6 years ago by Avatar photozn.
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  • #94394
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Fascinating stuff. The CIA. The corporate Dem Media. The Corporate Rep Media. The Trump Admin. Big Oil. Many parts are moving.

    Ive seen more matter-of-fact Imperialist-Empire talk from the mainsttream talking heads than ever before. Cause of this issue.

    #94404
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    I read somewhere else that MBS was somehow disruptive to the goal of regime change in Iran, but I don’t remember the connection between the two.

    #94405
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    I read somewhere else that MBS was somehow disruptive to the goal of regime change in Iran, but I don’t remember the connection between the two.

    =======

    This is why I’m comfortable with the notion of “deep state.” I dont know what else to call a
    corporate-empire like the US, that has all these layers of secret, non-democratic schemes. What else should we call it? We dont really know wtf this ‘nation’ is up to much of the time.

    Nation of lies, secrets, propaganda, and a public that you might as well just say is under a ‘spell’.

    …i also think this guy is right that Trump is sometimes more honest than Obama. Sounds outlandish but i think its true. Trump’s not honest but i think he is sometimes MORE honest than Obama/Clinton, etc. This of course is not something you will ever hear from Colbert or John Oliver or any of the Dem-MSM stooges.

    Trump lies constantly. About a gazillion things. Over and over. And yet, sometimes he pulls back the curtain. I think thats why factions in the CIA hate him. Thats just a guess.

    w
    v

    • This reply was modified 6 years ago by Avatar photowv.
    #94407
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    angry arab website:http://angryarab.blogspot.com/

    A movie review from the angry arab site mentioned in the real news vid.

    ————-
    Lebanon in US action movies: Beirut starring Jon Hamm

    By

    As`ad AbuKhalil

    Lebanon often provided a venue for American and Western action films. In the 1950s and 1960s, it was a place of international intrigue and espionagewhere spies intersected with other spies, and where car chases on mountainous roads provided for good movie scenes. There were so many US and European movies shot in Lebanon in those times, with such titles: “The Sell-out”, “Masquerade”, “Man on the Spying Trapeze”, “Agent 505”, “Embassy”, among others. But that so-called peaceful Lebanon (where successive Israeli invasions and massacres don’t get a mention in Western movie accounts, and are rarely listed as the reason for undermining the old Lebanon—with all its flaws, inequities, and injustices) does not exist anymore. The Lebanese civil war provided a totally different venue for American action films that were to come in the 1980s.

    While the Lebanese civil war was too complex for American films—and even for Western media and scholarly accounts, and while American films rarely if ever cover international conflicts and wars unless there is a white savior who can be inserted into the plot, the American military intervention in Lebanon in the 1980s and the bombing of US marine barracks in 1983 and the civil war phase where US was fighting alongside the Phalanges death squads, provided whole new scenarios for American action films, especially those which were produced by Israelis with tenuous or non-tenuouslinks to Mossad. America was ready to take revenge, if not in reality than on the silver screen.

    The Delta Force series of movies starring Chuck Norris were written and produced by the Israeli propagandist, Menachem Golan (who had servedin the Israeli military). And the depiction of the Middle East was a vulgar variation of the stereotypes: religious fanaticism mixed with thuggery, and neighborhoods and streets are replicas of the worst Orientalist imaginations. Many of those movies had Israeli participation in set creations, production, and acting. Arabic words are often (mis)pronounced with Hebrew accents.

    But one would think that times have changed and that Middle East depiction in films has improved a bit. The story line of the film, Beirut, was based on a script by well-known writer who was behind the Bourne plots starring Matt Damon. Yet, the plot is nothing more than a cliché that always finds its way in US movies about the Middle East. A good white Westerner is kidnapped by bloodthirsty Arabs. And the good white American in the movie is a CIA agent who of course knows the region better than its natives. But there are many elements of the movie that are woefully false, and often offensive.

    Who, for example, would find a beach in Beirut where camels are strolling? And what is the deal with camels in Middle Eastern cities? Camels are wonderful animals who played a big part in the lives of ancient Arab nomads, but times have changed, and even in Saudi Arabia the percentage of the population which still is nomadic is miniscule (less than 5%). And in Lebanon, you would have to search for a days to find a camel (you can find some in the Biqa` valley, but it is almost impossible to find a camel in Beirut). And why would camels be in Beirut—and on the beach?

    And the juxtaposition of the Lebanese civil war with the plot clearly reflected the ignorance of the writer about the civil war. People who did not live in a civil war situation assume that people fought daily, and that there were no truces and that normal lives did not find a way to coexist with war. There were often months of cease-fires that were rarely violated, and days of intense fighting were often followed by days of no fighting. Yet, the film assumes that fighting went on non-stop.

    And the Palestinian militia members had names that were not recognizable although the group in question resembled that of Fath-Revolutionary Council (the Abu Nidal organization). But the notion that CIA forces or US embassy armed gunmen moved so freely in Beirut—especially in West Beriut as in the movie–and Lebanon is a figment of the imagination of the movie. The movie should have reminded Americans that, in fact, from 1975 until 1982, the US diplomatic and military presence in Lebanon was (officially through understandings between the CIA and Force 17 of the Fath Movement) under the direct protection of the PLO (the PLO assigned the Lebanese Arab Amry, which split off from the Phalanges-controlled Lebanese Army, to protect the US embassy in Beirut). It was only after the evacuation of the PLO forces from Lebanon that US embassy was attacked and US diplomats and intelligence agents were kidnapped (the assassination of US ambassador Francis Meloy in 1976 was undertaken by a Lebanese leftist group, and the PLO had nothing to do with the assassination). In the movie, the PLO is seen as rather less dominant than it actually was (militarily speaking). And American diplomats moved in those days extremely cautiously in Beirut (especially after the assassination of US ambassador Francis Meloy) and with close coordination with the PLO in areas of West Beirut. None of that was shown in the movie.

    The movie also started with a high class party and an American CIA agent observed that Christians and Muslims sat apart during such social occasions. Anyone who would say that has never been to Lebanon, and probably obtained this idea from Israeli experts (the lead Palestinian child in the movie is in fact played by an Israeli actor, or an actor with an Israeli sounding name). Christians and Muslims mingled freely socially before, during, and after the war and the movie confused the later part of the civil war (where sectarian manifestations were quite pronounced) with the early phase of 1975-1982 when the Left vs Right was a key dimension of the war.

    The movie also projected the current Islamic fundamentalist tide on the past, forgetting that secularism was the norm among Lebanese and Palestinians in West Beirut at that time. It was the Israeli invasion of 1982 which eradicated the PLO (and its great influence) from Lebanon and unleashed religious forces among Muslims of Lebanon and the region (Hizbullah never existed before the devastating and brutal Israeli invasion of 1982). There was a scene in the movie where Christian fighters were watching a program showing bikini-clad women, and the implication of the scene was that Christians are not as conservative as Muslims. In realty, bikini clad women could be found back then in predominantly Muslim West Beirut and (the exclusively) Christian East Beirut (the pro-US/pro-Phalange militias of the right managed to perpetrate whole sale massacres of the ethnic-cleansing type against Palestinian and Muslims Lebanese in the early 1975-76 phase of the war).

    Also, in the early phase of the war 1975-76, the social scene among Muslims was much more secular than it became in the 1980s. Veiled women, and women wearing niqab were actually rare in those years. It was only in the 1980s, and especially after the Israeli invasion of Lebanon (and the Iranian Revolution and the spread of Wahhabi doctrine in the Muslim world) and the evacuation of the PLO which had a secularizing influence on Lebanese society, that veils became more common.

    Also, Western accounts (fiction and non-fictions alike) of the Lebanese civil war always omits a basic fact: that US and Israel were heavily involved in the outbreak and prolongation of the war. The recent book by James Stoker, Spheres of Interference, (which is based on new US declassified documents) reveals the extent to which the right-wing death squads of Lebanon were heavily sponsored by the US and Israel. Just as US media today pretends that Israel (which bombed Syria well over 100 times) and which has links to various armed groups inside the country, is a bystander in the Syrian war.

    There were references in the movie to bad elements in the CIA, and there were references to frictions between Mossad and the CIA. But the power of the Mossad was—typical in Western culture—highly exaggerated. The various stumbles, foiled attempts, and exposure especially in Dubai when the local polices plastered pictures of Mossad agents around the world don’t affect the image of the Mossad in the West. Finally, the movie talked about Israeli violence as if it was only directed at “terrorists”, while showing pictures of Israeli victims of Palestinian violence. But Arabs can never be victims—not in Western media or movies. And this movie was no different.

    #94431
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    Trump lies constantly. About a gazillion things. Over and over. And yet, sometimes he pulls back the curtain. I think thats why factions in the CIA hate him. Thats just a guess.

    w
    v

    His clumsiness and ignorance certainly drew attention in this case to the fact that the US does not care about the murder of a journalist when there is money at stake.

    But…you know…it has been pretty obvious to many of us long before now. I’m not sure there is a silver lining here. The people who can connect dots already have. They aren’t going to learn that skill now, even with the blatant ham-fisted ramblings of the misfit in chief.

    #94434
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Trump lies constantly. About a gazillion things. Over and over. And yet, sometimes he pulls back the curtain. I think thats why factions in the CIA hate him. Thats just a guess.

    w
    v

    His clumsiness and ignorance certainly drew attention in this case to the fact that the US does not care about the murder of a journalist when there is money at stake.

    But…you know…it has been pretty obvious to many of us long before now. I’m not sure there is a silver lining here. The people who can connect dots already have. They aren’t going to learn that skill now, even with the blatant ham-fisted ramblings of the misfit in chief.

    =============

    Oh, i dont see a silver lining, either.

    …Ojeda for vice president, btw. I bet progressives push for that. It might bring in a few red-states like WV.

    w
    v

    #94455
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Its gotten so that MSNBC just looks like the CIA-Network to me. Really. Thats how i see it.
    Newsweek has ‘always’ been that way.

    =================
    spy-‘reporters’:https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/newsweek-employed-spy-explains-to-us-why-assange-should-be-prosecuted-4cb319533633?fbclid=IwAR2GzNG3Ha_u-Qu3u5IKNsZuqVGcGzljmYafUhgIh899wO_eIIqw6kyGH3g

    Newsweek-Employed Spy Explains To Us Why Assange Should Be Prosecuted

    “…Jamali is currently a reserve intelligence officer for the United States Navy, and is a former FBI asset and double agent. He is also like many intelligence community insiders an MSNBC contributor, and is a senior fellow at the Foreign Policy Research Institute, a think tank which has featured many prominent neoconservative war whores like Donald and Frederick Kagan, Max Boot, and James Woolsey. Any think tank with the words “foreign policy” in its title is nothing other than a group of intellectuals who are paid by plutocrats to come up with the best possible arguments for why it would be very good and smart to do things that are very evil and stupid, and Naveed Jamali sits comfortably there….”

    #94516
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Fisk:http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50670.htm

    “….If there’s a murder, there’s got to be a body. And so here, briefly, we go back to Istanbul and to the Sultan himself, who doesn’t blame good old King Salman, but who really would like to find the corpse and who might – here we go again – have yet another tape of Khashoggi to send to the world’s intelligence services. Be sure our political leaders will not sully their ears by listening to it; Trump called the original recording “a suffering tape”. Canada’s Trudeau chose not to listen to it. But they really should have put their ear to the loudspeaker. Listening to an Arab journalist telling his murderers that he was suffocating would have been a fairly accurate symbol of democracy in the Middle East today…..
    ….
    ….Can we see a deal in the making here? The Yemen war comes to an end (thanks to its arms-selling enablers in the west) and the Syrian war reaches its peaceful finale with the blessing of Vladimir Putin. Of the $450bn Saudi Arabia has promised to spend on weapons in the US – let’s have no more talk of a piece of paper – $110bn will go to Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon “and many other great US defence contractors”. Adel al-Jubair’s “vision of light” – Saudi Arabia, of course – can go to war with Iran’s “vision of darkness which seeks to spread sectarianism throughout the region”.

    Khashoggi may have had a certain vision of darkness as they put the plastic bag over his head in the Saudi consulate last month, but in the Middle East the good guys don’t always come out on top. The war with Iran must be fought. The war against the Shiites must be fought. Israel and Netanyahu – notice how those names have so far eluded us in our woeful tale today? – will be satisfied with their “secret” Saudi alliance against Iran. Boeing and Lockheed Martin will flourish, along with many other great US defence contractors…”

    #94527
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Khashoggi may have had a certain vision of darkness as they put the plastic bag over his head in the Saudi consulate last month, but in the Middle East the good guys don’t always come out on top. The war with Iran must be fought. The war against the Shiites must be fought. Israel and Netanyahu – notice how those names have so far eluded us in our woeful tale today? – will be satisfied with their “secret” Saudi alliance against Iran. Boeing and Lockheed Martin will flourish, along with many other great US defence contractors…”

    So all ends well, right?

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