Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Public House › Bernie betrays the Democrats
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wv.
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October 25, 2017 at 8:40 am #76518wvParticipant
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bernie:https://www.salon.com/2017/10/24/sanders-betrays-democrats-announces-reelection-run-as-an-independent/
Bernie betrays Democrats, announces reelection run as an independent
After pledging in 2015 to run as a Democrat in future races, Sanders now wants to run in 2018 as an independentOctober 25, 2017 at 9:57 am #76524
nittany ramModeratorThat’s considered betrayal?
Sanders betrayed the democrats in much the same way that Harriet Tubman betrayed slave owners.
October 25, 2017 at 10:54 am #76530
ZooeyModeratorI’m not sure what any of that means. The DNC and the Party Loyalists see him as a traitor anyway, and they would continue to see him that way even if he ran as a Democrat.
Secondly, the Democrats have done everything in their power to ostracize him and the progressive wing of the party ever since the Democrat Convention in August, so it’s kind of like firing an employee after he quits, or breaking up with a girlfriend after she’s already dating some other guy. I don’t think Sanders can betray a party that has rejected him at every opportunity.
In any event…what does it mean? It means Sanders thinks his brand as an independent in his state is worth more to him than the label Democrat. And that he probably won’t run for president in 2020 which nobody expected him to anyway.
October 25, 2017 at 3:34 pm #76532wvParticipantIn any event…what does it mean? It means Sanders thinks his brand as an independent in his state is worth more to him than the label Democrat. And that he probably won’t run for president in 2020 which nobody expected him to anyway.
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Well, i expected him to run in 2020. But its less likely now.
Who then? Who will run?
w
vOctober 26, 2017 at 11:03 am #76554ZooeyModeratorIn any event…what does it mean? It means Sanders thinks his brand as an independent in his state is worth more to him than the label Democrat. And that he probably won’t run for president in 2020 which nobody expected him to anyway.
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Well, i expected him to run in 2020. But its less likely now.
Who then? Who will run?
w
vI dunno. My guess is that everybody will run. Both parties combined…probably around 30 of the world’s greatest humanitarians.
October 28, 2017 at 7:22 am #76608
TSRFParticipantWe’re all going to run when the Trump goon squads are chasing us.
I’ll just have to run a bit faster than whichever one of you I trip…
October 29, 2017 at 1:41 pm #76653
MackeyserModeratorThis thread is gold!
I actually think that after the 2018 election, if the Dems really crap on progressives, that Bernie will start immediately to get on the ticket in all 50 states and start campaigning.
He’s already doing a lot of ground game going around the country and his engagements are still selling out.
The alternatives that are palatable, but not perfect are Tulsi Gabbard and Nina Turner, but good luck making any of that happen. I mean, we’re talking about two women of color with legitimate progressive credentials and Tulsi has the resume to do the job (I fully admit that Nina Turner, while most excellent at speechifyin’ is light on the resume side)
That said, I’m certain the DNC is going to rally behind Kamala Harris. Book it. Presuming Hillary doesn’t run again with the idea to make Kamala Harris the VP.
Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.
October 29, 2017 at 7:31 pm #76668ZooeyModeratorI think there’s a good chance Harris will be the establishment-backed candidate.
I would be very happy if the progressives would splinter off behind Bernie for a third party.
October 29, 2017 at 11:14 pm #76673wvParticipantI think there’s a good chance Harris will be the establishment-backed candidate.
I would be very happy if the progressives would splinter off behind Bernie for a third party.
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Well, that would mean four more years of Trump, right.
Once again, people are faced with the usual triangulations.
I’m never voting for a DNC-backed-Dem. Ever.
If that means endless Rep presidents, so be it. I just dont believe in the system anymore.w
vOctober 30, 2017 at 12:13 pm #76681ZooeyModerator===================
Well, that would mean four more years of Trump, right.
Once again, people are faced with the usual triangulations.
I’m never voting for a DNC-backed-Dem. Ever.
If that means endless Rep presidents, so be it. I just dont believe in the system anymore.w
vProbably. But maybe not. A lot of people are completely fed up with their own party. Bernie would have won if he had been the nominee. But…if it is split three ways – Rep, Dem, Bernie – probably nobody wins 270 outright, and it goes to Congress to decide. And that wouldn’t be Bernie. But it might get the attention of the DNC…although you would have thought they would have noticed what happened in 2016. Who knows?
All I know is that planet is we are all dead unless we shut off fossil fuels, and develop technology that can regulate CO2, and neither Dems nor Reps are gonna do that, so it is Hail Mary time anyway.
But…I don’t think Sanders is going to run. The time to do that was 2016, and he didn’t do it. No reason to think he will do it in 2020. He will either return to Dem, or he won’t run. My guess is the latter.
Anyway…it was a nice biosphere while it lasted. Some good times. Go Rams.
October 30, 2017 at 4:53 pm #76690wvParticipantBut it might get the attention of the DNC…although you would have thought they would have noticed what happened in 2016. Who knows?
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Well I have come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as “getting the attention” of the DNC. I think the DNC is what it is. They have corporate-souls just like hardcore-Republicans. I think they will always do exactly what they have always done. Because thats just who they are. Thats what they believe in.
There’s not enough of us, Zooey. There just aint.
w
vNovember 1, 2017 at 12:27 am #76721ZooeyModeratorBut it might get the attention of the DNC…although you would have thought they would have noticed what happened in 2016. Who knows?
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Well I have come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as “getting the attention” of the DNC. I think the DNC is what it is. They have corporate-souls just like hardcore-Republicans. I think they will always do exactly what they have always done. Because thats just who they are. Thats what they believe in.
There’s not enough of us, Zooey. There just aint.
w
vYou’re probably right.
It isn’t that they are doing what they do in spite of the little voice of conscience in the back of their head.
They are doing what they do because they believe it, and because they think progressives are truly wrong-headed.
So, in that event, no way do they read the tea leaves that “it’s safe to be a Democrat again.”
They think they are.
November 1, 2017 at 10:38 am #76726wvParticipantprogressives vs democrats:http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/king-progressives-feel-unwelcome-democratic-party-article-1.3252755
This is a rather typical article written by a progressive. You can see lots of these kinds of articles on the net. And they complain about all the usual points about The Dems not being progressive and how the Dems are really just Rep-lites.
The thing is, what the articles dont talk about is how and why the Rep-lite-Dems got elected in their primaries in the first place. I mean the vast quantities of American Voters, VOTED for the DNC-Dems. The Thug-lites. They voted for em.
There aint enough of us, Zooey. For lots of reasons. And we’ve posted about those reasons for over a decade. But still, the bottom line is there aint enough people who think like us.
w
vNovember 1, 2017 at 10:49 am #76727wvParticipantlink:http://www.governing.com/topics/politics/gov-democrats-seek-rebuild-progressives-insist-purity.html
“…partisans on the left may argue that the presidency was lost because people who shared their ideological beliefs were insufficiently motivated by Clinton’s candidacy to turn out to vote. There may be some truth to that, but Brown warns that parties can seldom recover voters whose affections they’ve lost. “You have to go forward and start pushing into the opposing party’s base,” he says, “where they have started to ignore their supporters.”
This sounds like what the DNC believes in. I dont think its ‘strategy’ really, i think its what the ‘believe’ in. I think they just honestly ‘lean to the right’. The way Bill Clinton did. The way Hillary did. Thats what the DNC ‘is’.
w
vNovember 1, 2017 at 6:54 pm #76748MackeyserModeratorEverything you’ve all said thus far is right except this: there’s just not enough of us.
That’s just not true.
The two parties make up less than 53% of the electorate.
Of the remaining 47%, MOST agree with the progressive agenda and policies (and that Venn diagram overlaps almost 80% of Dems and over 50% of Reps)
If Bernie were to run as a third party candidate, he’d cannibalize significant vote from BOTH parties AS WELL as bringing in new people to the process.
NO candidate is perfect.
That said, Bernie is one of very few politicians who’s not a “lesser of two evils” candidate.
I mean, even moderate Republicans respect him and actually agree with him on many, many issues. Moreover, there aren’t that many attacks that stand up from the Left.
Yeah, he voted for the Crime Bill in ’94, but he spoke out about the issues at the time and voted for it because of the domestic violence provisions, not to enable mass incarceration. The thing with Bernie having a one-track mind is that he’s consistently saying the same thing for 30+ years.
It won’t be perfect, but he’s on record early and often.
It helps that he finds ways to get progressive things passed WITH the help of Republicans.
Neither Clinton or Obama could do that and HRC wasn’t even interested in trying.
Anyway, there ARE more of us. On Twitter #DemExit and #DemExodus are a real thing and there are MILLIONS of people who are working hard to enact things like open primaries and Ranked Choice Voting so that alternative candidates have a chance.
I’ll give Trump this, his election has mobilized people who would never have fought this hard if HRC was elected (sorta like even the left went soporific at times under Obama…or they were Chloroformed by the DNC folks, either way)
Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.
November 1, 2017 at 7:51 pm #76756wvParticipantEverything you’ve all said thus far is right except this: there’s just not enough of us.
That’s just not true.
The two parties make up less than 53% of the electorate.
Of the remaining 47%, MOST agree with the progressive agenda and policies (and that Venn diagram overlaps almost 80% of Dems and over 50% of Reps)
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I used to believe things like that, Mack. Not anymore.
Whats your evidence that the remaining 47 percent is ‘progressive’ in any meaningful-informed way?
I just dont see it. At all. And my main argument is this — there are plenty of other progressive parties that 47 percent could vote for — they never do. Jill got, what, about two percent?
My own view is that the sytem has destroyed the electorate. Colonized their brains, with racism, sexism, jingoism, consumerism, apathy-ism, corporatism, nationalism, capitalist-religions, and just an overwhelming amount of ‘confusion-ism.’
The cavalry just aint comin, Mack. They are all at the mall.
Why do you still believe
in Americans,
Mack?w
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