tick tick tick tick…it's gettin there

I think Wentz has a clear edge on the rest.

How would you feel if they took Goff?

I would just as soon have Mannion.

If Goff is the pick, I will just have to hope he does well.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 6 months ago by Agamemnon.

Okay—I have been pretty consistent with wanting Wentz. That has not changed for me. First of all, I like the running threat he brings to a team that runs a very conservative offense. He’s an extra threat–something the defense has to account for. Watching the NDSU offense felt like watching the Rams offense. He was successful with that. He took care of the football. He managed things very well–and was actually in charge of things at the line. He’s very smart. That tape with Marriucci really impressed me–wheras Goff didn’t quite seem to have the understanding of the play that Wentz did with his.

Yes–he needs to improve things. And he won’t have a championship caliber offensive line around him like he had at NDSU. How will he do when rushed? He doesn’t have quite the pocket movement of Goff but it doesn’t look terrible either. Can he develop a Big Ben sort of pocket ability?

I think he has room to improve and will.

I don’t dislike Goff. He is certainly more in the Montana mold than Wentz. But this kid has no great receivers to help him on this team right now. I don’t know what to expect from the offensive line. He has to make that spread transition. Yes–he has a good back behind him and a bit of a wild card weapon with Tavon–but I see that fitting Wentz better. Goff would thrive with the better downfield receivers or sharp route runners. he doesn’t have Jerry Rice or Issac Bruce.

I see him having a more difficult transition to the NFL with this team.

Now–can he make the receivers better? To a degree–sure. But how much better? And there is no help coming through the draft anytime soon.

Five years from now–with better players–Goff might be the pick.

But to grow with what is already on the team–I just really think Wentz would do better.

zn wrote:

Personally, I am much more on the Goff wagon than you are.

Not enough to get into a Warner/Bulger, Suh/Bradford war over it (not that you would but there are those who would).

It’s just where I stand at the moment.

Everybody is much more on the Goff wagon than I. 😉

I have so much info, and comparisons / opinions on Goff and Wentz stored in my head, I apparently have changed my snoring cadence.

Instead of the traditional snnnnkkkgghh, wwwhewwww, I am now dreaming happily of draft day, and producing a new sound that now resembles snnnnggggoffff, wwhhennnnnntzzz.

I think that what I think, is, that I would be happier with choosing Wentz. If the 2 are really that close as far as being the “right pick” I’d like to have the one that has more perceived potential regarding the greater, long-term upside.

In other words, having the guy that is more “NFL ready” right out of the box is not as important to me as having someone that could also produce well initially, but also develop into something even greater down the road. So I’m not saying that a project is better than a plug and play QB right out of the gate, and I definitely do not want to wait 3 or more years waiting for a project to develop. And I don’t think Wentz is that type of project.

Some of the comments with Goff I haven’t been able to reconcile – one article said that he has quick feet, like a typewriter, and a comparison was made to Manning, I think. Another article said that that was not necessarily a good trait, as it doesn’t allow the most stable platform for throwing a pass.

Another article says that Goff has great pocket presence, but yet another one indicates that taking a majority of snaps from the shotgun as opposed to taking them from under center might have an effect on that. The advantage of taking a snap from the shotgun and being able to see the pre-snap defense all the way through the progression until the throw is made might be different than taking a snap from under center, dropping back to pass, and then turning his head back and re-focusing downfield.

I don’t know, all of this may be minutiae; journalistic fluff intent on keeping the suspense alive until draft day.

And you know as well as I, this comparison doesn’t end on draft day, it only accelerates into a longer phase. One game, or even one season wont tell us everything as far as who was the right guy. We have RG3 and Bradford as 2 recent examples who had a decent start, but have yet to continue their production effectively. For the next several years we’ll probably still be comparing stats, W/L’s, offenses, coaching changes, injuries, near wins and losses and comebacks on these guys.

But for me, right now, I’m hoping for Wentz. If its Goff, yeah, I’ll be disappointed, and will only hope that he does well and proves me wrong.

Wentz can fit any system and he can make himself a good player. Some players will be good no matter who coaches them. imo

When I saw Wentz at the Senior Bowl, I marveled at how he threw the ball. Big, strong, and his release looked plenty quick to me. I lamented that he looked so good, knowing that he would definitely not fall to 15 and that 2016 was looking like another impact QB year.

Immediately after the trade, I emailed my brother that we got Wentz. I loved the move, and the more I learned about Wentz the more sure I was that the Rams would take him. He seemed like the perfect compliment to a big, bruising offensive line and an all-world powerful running back. The perfect combo, and his football IQ was reportedly off the charts. It seemed like an easy decision to me.

When I started hearing the rumors about Goff, I scoffed initially. Maybe a better pure passer, but not suited for the Rams’ system. Maybe a better technician with the football, and 1500 college throws, but he still seemed second to what Wentz offered.

But I have done the ol’ 180 since the trade (actually, about 6 of them). I want them to take Goff. Give me the better passer and we’ll work with the rest. I’ll take the QB with the better feet and the better understanding of angles and timing over the QB with the strongest arm.

I think in my mind Goff’s age of 21 versus Wentz’ age of 23 is a small consideration. Goff will get bigger and stronger. He told Mariucci he was 220, and he still looks stringy. Like Bradford, he could very well get to 235+ in two years of growing and professional training if he wants to be.

Like NERam, having the most QB ready is not very important to me either. Give me the one who has the best long term potential. I actually think Wentz is more ready to play earlier, but Goff is the better prospect long-term (others disagree on this point). Goff has more learning to do on running an offense, but seems to have that innate ability to find receivers and put the ball in their hands with touch.

I have no negatives about Wentz – I believe he can and will be a fine QB. I do think he as more of a chance to not pan out than Goff, but that possibility exists for both. Dan McGwire was a huge strapping QB for San Diego State that was a first round pick and could throw the football through a brick wall. He never turned out to be much, even though he appeared to be physically imposing as you could ever ask for.

In the end, I think that Goff will be at a minimum NFL competent, and that gives us a chance. If he plays 10 years and becomes Matt Ryan, that is a successful pick. Injuries is the great equalizer, and we must all hope that whomever they pick he stays healthy, but in my opinion they really can’t go wrong and I will be happy with whomever the decide.
Go Rams!
Isiah 58

I’m excited beyond words that the Rams are doing this. This late April draft schedule is agonizing and I’m on pins and needles that it works out.

I prefer Carson Wentz for a few reasons – a shade bigger arm, shade faster, shade smarter and being a consistent winner works for me. I feel he has more upside. I have this inclination that nobody out works Carson Wentz.

I have nothing against Jared Goff if he’s the Rams choice and feel that he would make a great QB.

I feel that which ever guy the Rams pick has an OL that’s about to gel, a stud running back and a solid defense.

All that said, my favorite defensive player in the draft is Buckner from Oregon. I hope the 49ers don’t draft him.

sdram wrote:

I’m excited beyond words that the Rams are doing this. This late April draft schedule is agonizing and I’m on pins and needles that it works out.

I prefer Carson Wentz for a few reasons – a shade bigger arm, shade faster, shade smarter and being a consistent winner works for me. I feel he has more upside. I have this inclination that nobody out works Carson Wentz.

I have nothing against Jared Goff if he’s the Rams choice and feel that he would make a great QB.

I feel that which ever guy the Rams pick has an OL that’s about to gel, a stud running back and a solid defense.

All that said, my favorite defensive player in the draft is Buckner from Oregon. I hope the 49ers don’t draft him.

yeah. that backfield is what really gets me excited. if the oline can get it together (this means you grob), i won’t be so concerned about the lack of receivers. it’d be very much a seattle model. awesome defense with an awesome backfield. i’m actually kinda worried about the defense though. a lot of it depends on ogletree continuing his momentum in a new position. and Quinn getting fully fit.

Has anyone checked to make sure whether Goff and Wentz
both have two eyes? I mean, do they check that at the Combine?
Cause i dont think there’s been any truly elite one-eyed QBs.

http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/28760/whether-its-jared-goff-or-carson-wentz-rams-next-qb-will-need-time

Tuesday, April 26, 2016
Whether it’s Jared Goff or Carson Wentz, Rams’ next QB will need time
By Nick Wagoner

In his former life as a member of the Atlanta Falcons personnel department, Los Angeles Rams general manager Les Snead was part of the regime that selected quarterback Matt Ryan with the third overall pick in the 2008 NFL draft.

The plan was to slowly work Ryan into the lineup while journeyman Chris Redman handled the starting duties. That lasted all of three weeks into the preseason before Ryan claimed the job.

“Matt Ryan kind of won the job,” Snead said. “But there was never a moment that we said ‘Hey, we’ve got to start a rookie.’ Nowadays, with the transition from college to the NFL, I do think there should be some level of patience to make that adjustment because it’s a little bit different. That’s just reality.”

As Snead and the Rams prepare to use the first overall pick in this year’s draft on a quarterback — Cal’s Jared Goff or North Dakota State’s Carson Wentz — they’re dealing with a reality that’s far different from the one Snead and the Falcons lived in eight years ago.

Snead and coach Jeff Fisher are entering their fifth season in charge of the Rams. To this point, their guidance has yet to get the Rams a .500 season, let alone a playoff berth. The urgency wrought by four straight losing seasons forced them to sell the farm to trade up from No. 15 to No. 1 in this year’s draft. The goal? Fix a quarterback position that has combined for a league-worst QBR of 34.0 since 2007.

In other words, the Rams not only need a quarterback but preferably one capable of starting in short order. So, how do Goff and Wentz rate when it comes to NFL readiness?

When Les Snead and the Falcons drafted Matt Ryan in 2008, the plan was to start a veteran until Ryan was ready. But Ryan forced his way into the lineup early, and Snead, now the Rams GM, hopes to find a player in the draft who can do something similar.
“No. 1, you’ve got to [really watch] the mental quickness, the arm quickness, the body quickness of each candidate, how well they communicate, their interaction with others, what is their interest level, their football intelligence,” ESPN NFL analyst Jon Gruden said. “Can they teach the game themselves? They have to be able to do that at this stage of the game.

“Then you’ve got to go to the film and really take a good look. Can they make tight-window throws? Are they tough in the pocket? Can they solve problems? How are they in the tight red zone situation? Could they take care of the ball? Can they bring their team from behind? There are so many different things that you have to evaluate. And then, obviously, you look at the system, the training ground that they come from.”

Many draft analysts believe Goff is more ready to play right away than Wentz, something that could appeal to the Rams, who are looking to win now. But being more ready than Wentz doesn’t necessarily mean he’s a plug-and-play option.

At Cal, Goff spent more than 99 percent of his time working out of the shotgun. The Bears’ spread offense is an offshoot of the Air Raid offense built by Washington State coach Mike Leach. Goff’s offense rarely left him in a huddle spitting out NFL verbiage, instead requiring him to look to the sideline for play calls and adjustments. It’s a spread system in every sense of the word and bears little resemblance to the Rams’ pro style approach.

In fact, Rams quarterbacks took the fewest snaps in the shotgun of all NFL teams in 2015 with 384. At February’s scouting combine, Goff said he began taking snaps under center right after the season.

“There’s obviously going to be a transition and I think it happens, but there’s a transition with every quarterback coming from college to the NFL,” Goff said. “So I’m excited for it, honestly. I think I did a lot of stuff in college that does translate well and again there’s a lot of stuff I need to improve on. Again, I’m excited for that and excited to make the adjustments and that transition.”

Coincidentally, Wentz has no such questions about his schematic pedigree. North Dakota State runs an offense that’s as close to an NFL system as you’ll find in college.

“First of all, they get in a huddle,” Gruden said. “Can you imagine that? They get into a huddle with 11 men and they have to call a play. They get underneath the center. They use numerous personnel groupings. They’re not in the same one-back, one-tight end, three-receiver set the entire day. They use every formation, every shift in motion that you can use. They involve the quarterback at the line of scrimmage. He gets up there, and audibles, changes plays, changes protections. He doesn’t have to look to the sideline to get all the answers, and that is huge. Those elements alone distinguish their offensive system from most of the other colleges that I’ve seen in the last three or four years.”

Likewise, Wentz has experience throwing every route on every drop and knows all of the progressions. Even with that knowledge, Wentz knows that he has plenty to learn upon his arrival in the NFL. Coming from an FCS school has left many questions about Wentz’s ability to transition to facing top competition. Yes, the playbook will be bigger, but more important, the competition will be faster.

“I think right away the biggest challenge that myself, anybody standing up here at this podium is going to say is adjusting to that speed,” Wentz said. “You put on some NFL tape or you watch Monday Night Football, Sunday games or whatever, you realize these guys are playing fast. So you gotta adjust right away and learn to adapt pretty quick. I’m excited for that opportunity.”

Chances are the Rams will provide either Goff or Wentz that opportunity sooner rather than later. Whether the quarterback they choose will be ready when that time comes remains to be seen.