Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Rams Huddle › One step at a time
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InvaderRam.
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October 26, 2015 at 12:19 pm #32986
rflParticipantWell, the Rams passed their test yesterday. Didn’t see the game. But, it seemed to have run to form: tough defense, hard running from TG, … and lousy passing.
I give the team credit. They stepped up to play competitive, tough football. There is hope that they are leveling off their performances. Raising their floor, so to speak. That’s a very good development if it holds up.
It also raises hopes for a big season. We do have some special units and players emerging. If we play tough, we certainly can compete with very good teams. Maybe, just maybe …
The problem is, of course, the passing game. This is no news to anyone, much less to the experienced heads around here. It’s just a brief assessment of where we stand.
Looking ahead, I just don’t see how we can get over the hump for the season with an extremely poor passing game. And the pattern has been so consistent, it’s hard to imagine the light going on. Here is TG, blowing up and drawing the primary interest of DCs … and we STILL can’t get the play action offense going. In 3 games and after a bye.
I think it’s difficult to imagine the pass offense getting a lot better this year. It’s always POSSIBLE, I guess, but I’d hate to put the mortgage money down on it.
So let’s say that the passing game remains pretty poor. In that case, I can’t see us getting over the hump.
For example, I see us struggling against SF and MN. Both teams have really good defense, probably capable of containing TG and certainly capable of turning up the heat against our very poor passing game. Now, you say, neither team has a great passing game of their own and our Defense is pretty good, too.
But MN’s passing game is probably emerging better than ours is. And SF can be effective at times. So IMO here’s what those games are likely to come down to.
Our D has to be damn near perfect. We need to hold those teams under, say, 14 points. Can they do it? Sure. But you simply cannot ask an NFL defense to be THAT GOOD game after game. Just a slip here or there, a couple of plays, and we’ll need 21+ points or better to win.
I don’t like those odds. Not when the other defenses are fully capable of deploying to contain TG without having to worry about our passing game.
So, to me, we took a step this week. A welcome one. I would be delighted if we could establish a pattern of playing tough every week. For one thing, I would feel proud of the team for the 1st time in a decade.
But, we remain at least a year away. We simply have not built up the OL and rcvg corps sufficiently to get over the hump. There’s been too much failure in building the OL and too much neglect of the WRs to get us there just yet.
As usual, I hope I’m wrong.
By virtue of the absurd ...
October 26, 2015 at 12:57 pm #32987
znModeratorI think you offer a fair take and there’s a lot I agree with, but I do not agree with this:
There’s been too much failure in building the OL and too much neglect of the WRs
First, they didn’t fail to build an OL, they built one. There are good reasons why PFF ranked the Rams OL 13th in 2013 (which to me means pretty good, effective) and ranked Long 7th among all OTs. I take PFF rankings as “more or less” and to me that was more or less right. It was a line that allowed them to play some good teams tough with an offense consisting of Clemens and Stacy. Stacy has not reproduced anything he did in 2013 since, with the Rams or anyone else, so I take it his production was mostly on the OL.
What killed that line was injuries, both in 2013 and 2014.
What they have now of course is a young, inexperienced line, and I don’t even think it will take until next year for it to become decently stable. I think considering what it is, it’s already ahead of schedule.
In terms of the receivers? Quick stepped up in 2014 and has not yet come back from the injury. Several receivers have all slipped at the same time, but since it is so many, that tells me it’s a systemic thing, not talent. If Britt and Kendricks were even as good as they were last year, for example, that would help solidify things. Tavon, in contrast, has been playing better than he ever has.
I never liked Cook but even he can settle down.
A combination of a young, inexperienced OL and a new qb? It’s actually doing better in a lot of respects than we had a right to expect.
So I don’t agree they failed to build an OL…I think injuries caused them to LOSE an OL, and forced them to start over.
I think the entire offense improves enough to be a decent contributor to a winning season. That’s just this year. To me the Cleveland game didn’t add anything…I’ve felt that way since the Arizona game. And besides, I never really bought the idea that this team always fell through against moderate to weak opponents. If you do the numbers on that, that’s mostly 2014…in 2012 and 2013, they don’t have those kinds of collapses at the rate they did in 2014. But then to me, 2014 was all about the qbs and injury diminished OL.
I won’t convince you, probably, which is fine. It’s interesting to get different views out there, in fact it’s probably the whole point of discussions like this.
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October 26, 2015 at 1:44 pm #32992
AgamemnonParticipantSince Gurley, we can now run the ball in the red zone. We can run when the other team knows we are going to run. We can finish games when we are ahead. We seem to be able to run a no-huddle offense. At least it worked against Cleveland.
Zuerlein has been a bit of a tease lately. Can we get a passing game with passes to our WRs?
AgamemnonOctober 26, 2015 at 1:50 pm #32994znModeratorZuerlein has been a bit of a tease lately. Can we get a passing game with passes to our WRs?
They did in the 2nd half. Plays to Britt and Tavon led to Foles getting 11 YPR in that half, which of course is tops. If it weren’t for Cook’s fumble the results would have been better. It’s not the GSOT but it’s a start.
October 26, 2015 at 2:06 pm #32997AgamemnonParticipantZuerlein has been a bit of a tease lately. Can we get a passing game with passes to our WRs?
They did in the 2nd half. Plays to Britt and Tavon led to Foles getting 11 YPR in that half, which of course is tops. If it weren’t for Cook’s fumble the results would have been better. It’s not the GSOT but it’s a start.
Wasn’t that when Fisher went to the no-huddle offense? Even after he told JT that he never thought about it. 😉
There was a nice long pass and catch to Quick if he would have been inbounds.
AgamemnonOctober 26, 2015 at 2:41 pm #33001
ZooeyModeratorI agree with you, RFL. I just see the passing O as the team’s biggest deficiency, and believe it will certainly be the reason the season comes to an end when it does.
We are six games in, and I see no chemistry in the passing game. There is hope, sure. But I haven’t seen anything building yet. Foles has given me nuthin’ I didn’t get from Hill.
October 26, 2015 at 4:46 pm #33003
nittany ramModeratorFoles has given me nuthin’ I didn’t get from Hill.
Yeah, Foles could be better, but I think he’s noticeably better than Hill (and Clemmons and Davis). He at least can make throws down the field which Hill and the others couldn’t make. I think he’s going to improve as the year progresses. Part of the problem is, as usual, the Rams WR’s don’t scare anyone. In camp with Quick out Foles and Cook developed a rapport because Cook is all-world in practice. Problem is, in the games Cook’s not even all-township. Maybe Quick will start to get back to where he was before the injury which would give Foles another option in the passing game that defenses would have to respect. Right now the Rams passing game is pretty limited. It consists of bubble screens to Tavon, short crossing routes to Cook and the occasional deep throw to Britt and Bailey.
October 26, 2015 at 5:00 pm #33004
wvParticipantWell the issue to ‘me’ is — can they get to that “ten win” level.
Wild-card playoff level — and to be at ‘that’ level, you can
still have weaknesses. So, i think they can indeed
have a mediocre passing game and still be a wild-card-level team.I never had much hope for an ‘elite level’ team this year.
I also do think the passing game will improve as the season
goes along (barring injuries). Surely its reasonable to
expect incremental improvement from a new QB and a new OLine
as the season goes along and they get more experience.They get the 49ers at home. Good teams win
these games. To state the obvious.PS — what could be finer than to beat
the shit out of the 49ers and the Vikings
in back to back weeks. Make it so.w
vOctober 26, 2015 at 5:44 pm #33006rflParticipantWell the issue to ‘me’ is — can they get to that “ten win” level.
Wild-card playoff level — and to be at ‘that’ level, you can
still have weaknesses. So, i think they can indeed
have a mediocre passing game and still be a wild-card-level team.Well, I certainly hope you’re right. And IF we beat both SF and MN in the next 2 weeks, then I’ll start to believe some.
But, let’s put things in perspective. We are currently 3-3. 10 games left. To get to 10-6 we need to go 7-3 the rest of the way.
Now, let’s say we aren’t ready to beat SF and MN. That means we must win ALL the remaining games save 1. ALL of them.
Would you really feel good about our odds of doing that IF we can’t get by either the Vikes (who actually fit your description of a 10 win team with weaknesses better than we do) or SF, who have genuine team strengths and whupped the Vikes in Week 1?
Now let’s say we go 1 & 1 in the next 2 games. OK. That gives us the luxury of losing 2 the rest of the way. AZ at home? SEA on the road? Win the rest? Again … really?
I dunno. I just don’t see it. If we were 4-2 right now, we’d be on top of the season and would have some leeway. But we aren’t. And without a passing game …
And the thing is, our passing game is not mediocre right now. It is at the very bottom of the league. Mediocre is mid-table. We aren’t there yet. Not even close.
My friend, I want to see the team as emerging, as you do. But I just see no evidence of anything better than an 8-8, MAYBE 9-7 slog. There is no EVIDENCE of that. And there won’t be until and unless the passing game emerges dramatically and/or we go on a genuine streak of winning. A couple won games hovering around .500 is not an improvement over where we’ve been.
By virtue of the absurd ...
October 26, 2015 at 6:13 pm #33007rflParticipantFirst, they didn’t fail to build an OL, they built one. …
What killed that line was injuries, both in 2013 and 2014.What they have now of course is a young, inexperienced line, and I don’t even think it will take until next year for it to become decently stable. I think considering what it is, it’s already ahead of schedule.
In terms of the receivers? … Several receivers have all slipped at the same time, but since it is so many, that tells me it’s a systemic thing, not talent. …
A combination of a young, inexperienced OL and a new qb? It’s actually doing better in a lot of respects than we had a right to expect.So I don’t agree they failed to build an OL…I think injuries caused them to LOSE an OL, and forced them to start over.
I won’t convince you, probably, which is fine. It’s interesting to get different views out there.
As is usually the case in these discussions, you want to talk about reasons why manifest failure isn’t failure. Of course, you are free to do this.
But you know when a new regime has to start over in Year 4 with rookies and saplings on the OL is a failure. You can explain it any way you want to. You can make all the excuses you want to. But they have NOT managed to establish OL stability in 3.5 seasons. It’s Year 4 and we’re STILL talking about a young line settling in. That is not in my view a template for FO success.
As for the passing game … if you feel the unit is “actually doing better in a lot of respects than we had a right to expect,” then, well, I don’t even know what to say about that. They’re at the very bottom of the league. I dunno what you were expecting, but I think many people might have been expecting a bit more than this. I certainly did.
Well, as you say, we’ll never convince each other. Part of it is that we are seeing and saying different things. I am describing what is. I also hold the FO responsible for what is because, after 3.5 seasons, a team’s leadership is responsible for what its decisions have produced. I think you’d have a damn hard time finding anyone in the league who would dispute that. Your focus is on explanations for long standing trends, and your explanations include lots of reference to bad fortune in the form of injuries. Well, even if one were to buy that excuse, the FO remains responsible for the results that follow from its decisions. That’s how leadership responsibility works.
By virtue of the absurd ...
October 26, 2015 at 7:21 pm #33011
InvaderRamModeratorwell i’m at the point where i think the talent level is good enough to have a winning record. so if they don’t have a winning record this season, i’m seriously reevaluating whether a change needs to be made.
but i don’t necessarily anticipate the rams having another losing record. i think they make a run here. no excuse making for me. the oline as it is right now is good enough to get this team over the hump. and i have every reason to believe that it continues to get better as the season goes on.
i’m also curious to see if the rams incorporate more no huddle going forward. the passing game did look better in the second half.
October 26, 2015 at 10:34 pm #33037ZooeyModeratorSure, it seems reasonable to expect incremental improvement from the passing game.
Except that I haven’t seen any.
I don’t swim in a stats-filled pool, so I can’t back up my impressions with data, but I would say that I think the most impressive Foles performance was the first game against Seattle.
As I recall, the Rams put together 3 80-yard drives in that game. And, iirc, we haven’t seen anything to match that since.
In fact, the Rams flat out suck.
I don’t know what else to conclude from the fact that the Rams are #1, or near the top, in first down yardage, and at, or near, the bottom in 3rd down conversion, and that they just don’t accomplish sustained drives. I mean, remove the Seattle game, and where are the Rams statistically on offense?
They SUCK, people. The offense SUCKS. You give the Rams a middle-of-the-pack defense, and they are 0-6 right now. Maybe 1-5.
So, yeah, Foles sometimes makes some great downfield throws. But for every one of those, he throws the ball over the head or behind a receiver 10 – 15 yards away from him 3 times.
Yeah, and maybe Quick gets better, and maybe Foles gets better, but I’m not seeing the OL as being the big problem here, and it sure as hell isn’t Gurley.
The Rams can’t pass. They can’t. They can’t make first downs, they can’t control the clock, and they scare nobody in the passing game.
They can contend. Jared Cook will make a big play now and then between his pulled-short routes, and phantom blocks, and Foles will hit a guy once in a while. But they aren’t going to win when it matters because they can’t.
Having said that, I am enjoying the season, and I look forward to December, and I hope they get a playoff game.
But this team needs a QB and a WR.
October 26, 2015 at 10:34 pm #33038InvaderRamModeratorwhat i’d like to see is the rams do more no huddle with gurley seeing more action the passing game in the no huddle. i mean how does a defense deal with a todd gurley running AND catching the ball. it’d be much harder to defend than a todd gurley just running the ball i’d imagine.
if i’m cignetti, i’m working on expanding that part of the playbook. kinda like how the steelers use bell.
October 26, 2015 at 10:54 pm #33040InvaderRamModeratorSure, it seems reasonable to expect incremental improvement from the passing game.
Except that I haven’t seen any.
I don’t swim in a stats-filled pool, so I can’t back up my impressions with data, but I would say that I think the most impressive Foles performance was the first game against Seattle.
As I recall, the Rams put together 3 80-yard drives in that game. And, iirc, we haven’t seen anything to match that since.
In fact, the Rams flat out suck.
I don’t know what else to conclude from the fact that the Rams are #1, or near the top, in first down yardage, and at, or near, the bottom in 3rd down conversion, and that they just don’t accomplish sustained drives. I mean, remove the Seattle game, and where are the Rams statistically on offense?
They SUCK, people. The offense SUCKS. You give the Rams a middle-of-the-pack defense, and they are 0-6 right now. Maybe 1-5.
So, yeah, Foles sometimes makes some great downfield throws. But for every one of those, he throws the ball over the head or behind a receiver 10 – 15 yards away from him 3 times.
Yeah, and maybe Quick gets better, and maybe Foles gets better, but I’m not seeing the OL as being the big problem here, and it sure as hell isn’t Gurley.
The Rams can’t pass. They can’t. They can’t make first downs, they can’t control the clock, and they scare nobody in the passing game.
They can contend. Jared Cook will make a big play now and then between his pulled-short routes, and phantom blocks, and Foles will hit a guy once in a while. But they aren’t going to win when it matters because they can’t.
Having said that, I am enjoying the season, and I look forward to December, and I hope they get a playoff game.
But this team needs a QB and a WR.
if it’s the same story by game 16, i’d say yeah. try and find a quarterback in the 2017 draft. see what les’ qb scouting skills are like.
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