Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Rams Huddle › do running/mobile qbs get sacked more as a rule
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wv.
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July 11, 2014 at 1:40 pm #1489
znModeratorI said in a different post that running/scrambling qbs tend to get sacked more as a rule, not less. This stuff here represents a quick and dirty effort to verify that.
Well it’s true, generally.
A lot of this is just self-explanatory.
#1. TOP 10 QBS, RUNS FOR FIRST DOWNS
Cam Newton
Russell Wilson
Colin Kaepernick
Terrelle Pryor
Robert Griffin III
Andrew Luck
Alex Smith
Geno Smith
Michael Vick
Nick Foles#2. TOP 10 QBS, RUSHING YARDS
Russell Wilson
Colin Kaepernick
Robert Griffin
Terrelle Pryor
Alex Smith
Geno Smith
Andrew Luck*
Andy Dalton
Nick Foles*
EJ Manuel
Ryan Fitzpatrick#3. “TOP RUNNING QBS” IE. LISTS #1 & #2 COMBINED
Cam Newton
Russell Wilson
Colin Kaepernick
Terrelle Pryor
Robert Griffin III
Andrew Luck
Alex Smith
Geno Smith
Michael Vick
Nick Foles
EJ Manuel
Ryan Fitzpatrick#4. BOTTOM HALF OF 41 RANKED QBS, SACK PERCENTAGE UNDER PRESSURE. This list is backwards–it goes from worst to best IN the bottom half. Here, I red-bold any qb who is ALSO on the “top running qbs” list (list #3).
Matt Flynn
Thaddeus Lewis
Ryan Tannehill
Christian Ponder
E.J. Manuel
Brandon Weeden
Nick Foles
Aaron Rodgers
Kellen Clemens
Colin Kaepernick
Cam Newton
Ben Roethlisberger
Geno Smith
Russell Wilson
Joe Flacco
Jake Locker
Mike Glennon
Terrelle Pryor
Robert Griffin III
Alex D. Smith9 of the qbs from List #3 are also on List #4. The 3 who aren’t: Luck, Vick, and Fitzpatrick
#5 BEST 10 OUT OF 41, SACK PERCENTAGE UNDER PRESSURE. I blue-bold any qbs on this list who are also on List #3.
Matthew McGloin
Peyton Manning
Matthew Stafford
Josh McCown
Jason Campbell
Jay Cutler
Matt Schaub
Andrew Luck
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Sam Bradford#6 TOP 10 QBs, SACK PERCENTAGE (GENERAL, NOT “UNDER PRESSURE”). I blue-bold any qbs on this list who are also on List #3.
Peyton Manning 2.7%
Matthew Stafford 3.5%
Josh McCown 4.7%
Andy Dalton 4.7%
Jason Campbell 4.8%
Jay Cutler 5.1%
Philip Rivers 5.2%
Andrew Luck 5.3%
Sam Bradford 5.4%
Drew Brees 5.4%#7 THE RUNNING QBs (LIST #3) GENERAL SACK PERCENTAGE. That is, List #3 qbs with their sack percentage. Note: anything over 5.8% is bad; anything over 8% is really bad. I blue-bold the qbs on this list who have a decent sack percentage (under 5.8%).
Cam Newton 8.1%
Russell Wilson 9.8%
Colin Kaepernick 8.6%
Terrelle Pryor 10.2%
Robert Griffin III 7.7%
Andrew Luck 5.3%
Alex Smith 7.1%
Geno Smith 8.8%
Michael Vick 9.6%
Nick Foles 8.3%
EJ Manuel 8.4%
Ryan Fitzpatrick 5.7%**
Now, there are all kinds of things that get said about this. Some say, it is really not surprising that running/mobile qbs get sacked more. Some say, having a running/mobile qb helps you avoid sacks.
I think it’s pretty clear that the best qbs at avoiding sacks include a very high percentage of pocket passers. Guys who read pressure and just get the ball away.
July 11, 2014 at 4:20 pm #1509wvParticipantWell for me, the statement “running qbs get sacked more” is perplexing.
I’m not sure what that ‘means’ to you.I mean, would Roger Staubach have been a better QB
if he had stayed in the pocket all the time?
Would Elway or Steve Young have been better
without running ability? Would Russell Wilson be
better if he had no running ability?
Would Rothlisberger be more or less
dangerous if he had no running ability?Obviously the ability to run is a ‘good thing’.
So, I’m not sure what your meta-point is here.
Steve Young, John Elway, Joe Montana,
Ben Rothlisberger, Roger Staubach…Ya know.
There’s running-quarterbacks, and there’s
running quarterbacks.Some of the Running-QBs are just bad QBs.
w
vJuly 11, 2014 at 4:59 pm #1513znModeratorWell for me, the statement “running qbs get sacked more” is perplexing.
I’m not sure what that ‘means’ to you.I mean, would Roger Staubach have been a better QB
if he had stayed in the pocket all the time?
Would Elway or Steve Young have been better
without running ability? Would Russell Wilson be
better if he had no running ability?
Would Rothlisberger be more or less
dangerous if he had no running ability?Obviously the ability to run is a ‘good thing’.
So, I’m not sure what your meta-point is here.
Steve Young, John Elway, Joe Montana,
Ben Rothlisberger, Roger Staubach…Ya know.
There’s running-quarterbacks, and there’s
running quarterbacks.Some of the Running-QBs are just bad QBs.
w
vSometimes, I will just bite off small pieces and given em a good chew. Like, if this were science, I would have just carbon dated a fossil. Doing that isn’t a commentary on the nature of human existence.
So, I’m not thinking about the general category of “the running/mobile qb” or judging the type in general or downgrading them.
I was just kicking around the idea that running qbs get sacked more. The context of that is, debates over the years with guys who say they get sacked LESS. For example, last fall, I had debates with some guys who said that because he was more mobile, Clemens got sacked less than SB. Actually he got sacked at a higher rate. Whenever this kind of thing comes up, in fact, I say the same thing–the r/m qb gets sacked more, not less.
So it just occurred to me to ask, have I ever actually seen that quantified? I looked. No one had done it, not that I saw in a fast search. So, I just went ahead and did it.
So I haven’t even climbed the ladder yet up to the more complicated issue of comparing them.
I think all I showed is that in terms of sack percentages, the pocket passer tends to do better.
But someone could easily say, yeah, well, but, there are other advantages to having a r/m qb that balance that. And I would probably go…sure.
July 11, 2014 at 6:14 pm #1516wvParticipantWell, i’m not even sure i would agree that there is one
category we could call ‘running QB.’Ya know. There’s Staubach. And Kaepernik. And Tarkenton.
And Russell Wilson. And Steve Young. And Montana. And Rothlisberger.
And Cam Newton. And Randall Cunningham. Troy Aikman. And RG3. And even Andrew Luck.I’m not sure, but i think there are different categories QBs in that group.
w
v-
This reply was modified 10 years, 3 months ago by wv.
July 11, 2014 at 6:27 pm #1520znModeratorWell, i’m not even sure i would agree that there is one
category we could call ‘running QB.’Ya know. There’s Staubach. And Kaepernik. And Tarkenton.
And Russell Wilson. And Steve Young. And Montana. And Rothlisberger.
And Cam Newton. And Randall Cunningham. Troy Aikman. And RG3. And even Andrew Luck.I’m not sure, but i think there are different categories QBs in that group.
w
vWell, when you get down into the details…that’s true. But I’m fine for now with the simple difference in 2 categories.
I think it’s roughly true that there’s a style of qb who uses his legs as a part of his game–to run or to scramble or to both–and then pocket passers who have varying degrees of lesser mobility.
So for example Bradford is more mobile than Warner but as long as I’m relying on rough categories, I put them both on the “pure pocket passer” side.
So Bradford v. Newton in its own different way amounts to the same as Warner v. McNair.
July 11, 2014 at 7:29 pm #1524wvParticipant<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>wv wrote:</div>
Well, i’m not even sure i would agree that there is one
category we could call ‘running QB.’Ya know. There’s Staubach. And Kaepernik. And Tarkenton.
And Russell Wilson. And Steve Young. And Montana. And Rothlisberger.
And Cam Newton. And Randall Cunningham. Troy Aikman. And RG3. And even Andrew Luck.I’m not sure, but i think there are different categories QBs in that group.
w
vWell, when you get down into the details…that’s true. But I’m fine for now with the simple difference in 2 categories.
I think it’s roughly true that there’s a style of qb who uses his legs as a part of his game–to run or to scramble or to both–and then pocket passers who have varying degrees of lesser mobility.
So for example Bradford is more mobile than Warner but as long as I’m relying on rough categories, I put them both on the “pure pocket passer” side.
So Bradford v. Newton in its own different way amounts to the same as Warner v. McNair.
Then i think its only fair if i bring in other positions. For example
i would argue that “Running RBs” get tackled less
than stationary pocket RBs.Think about that algebra, right there.
w
vJuly 11, 2014 at 7:32 pm #1525znModeratorThen i think its only fair if i bring in other positions. For example
i would argue that “Running RBs” get tackled less
than stationary pocket RBs.Think about that algebra, right there.
w
vLook, now you’re just running circles around me. You said you would only do that when I defended fumblers.
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July 12, 2014 at 11:23 am #1568
nittany ramModeratorI’d be interested in seeing a comparison of “games missed per season due to injury” between running QBs and pocket QBs.
And that sounds like a lot of work so you better get started now.
Chop chop.
July 12, 2014 at 12:30 pm #1575
rflParticipantJust a small point.
There’s a difference between scramblers who move and then throw and RUNNING QBs who take off to gain yards on their feet.
My point about QBs is simple: they must be able to beat defenses throwing. Fran Tarkenton–and Wilson?–ran around and then killed you throwing. Marino did it standing tall. The point is … be able to beat a good defense throwing.
“Running” QBs don’t really believe in the pass and don’t have the patience to learn the reads. When it isn’t there easily, they cut and run. I never believe in those guys. And, yes, it makes sense to me that they would be more susceptible to sacks. A read-and-throw QB can beat the pass rush with 2 steps.
By virtue of the absurd ...
July 12, 2014 at 5:34 pm #1591wvParticipantJust a small point.
There’s a difference between scramblers who move and then throw and RUNNING QBs who take off to gain yards on their feet.
My point about QBs is simple: they must be able to beat defenses throwing. Fran Tarkenton–and Wilson?–ran around and then killed you throwing. Marino did it standing tall. The point is … be able to beat a good defense throwing.
“Running” QBs don’t really believe in the pass and don’t have the patience to learn the reads. When it isn’t there easily, they cut and run. I never believe in those guys. And, yes, it makes sense to me that they would be more susceptible to sacks. A read-and-throw QB can beat the pass rush with 2 steps.
What would you call Montana?
w
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