our reactions to the Patz game

Recent Forum Topics Forums The Rams Huddle our reactions to the Patz game

Viewing 30 posts - 1 through 30 (of 42 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #125453
    zn
    Moderator

    I dunno, I’ll take it, but what’s the big deal about beating the New England Patriots.

    😎

    #125457
    joemad
    Participant

    Dominant win, but I’d trade it for SB 53…

    JETS, Seahawks and Cards left.

    #125461
    InvaderRam
    Moderator

    that int call on goff was most bogus.

    akers was totally awesome.

    the defense. well shoot. i want to see how much better they can get.

    #125465
    Agamemnon
    Moderator

    The defense dominated. Akers dominated.

    Agamemnon

    #125466
    wv
    Participant

    Well, they beat Brady,
    and they beat Belichex.

    Saw the highlights. McVay did the right thing. Pound the F’ing ball.

    That had to be the OLine’s best and most satisfying game,
    in a long long time.

    Looked like Belichex took away Goff’s favorite little screens and short passes.
    Dared em to run.

    w
    v

    #125468
    JackPMiller
    Participant

    Struggled a bit on the passing game. The INT on Goff, I don’t blame him for that. The ball was low, & it was a great defensive play. Our defense played great. Akers had a great night, along with the run blocking. Hekker was Hekker tonight.

    #125470
    Zooey
    Moderator

    Looked to me like Bellichek’s plan was to dare the Rams to run, and McVay did. And Akers did.

    Meanwhile, the Pats got 3 points.

    So THAT was fun. I didn’t love every play, and I know the Pats are down, but that was still hugely satisfying. Felt like a good game.

    The Rams still need a deep ball. And some special teams.

    But I feel like this team is improving as the season rolls on, and I am starting to believe they have a shot against the Jets.

    #125473
    InvaderRam
    Moderator

    I feel like this team is improving as the season rolls on

    really hoping the rams can peak at the right time.

    #125495
    Billy_T
    Participant

    Enjoyable game, though it never seemed like the offense was in a groove. Perhaps due to Akers running well, there was no reason to do their usual setting up the next play, and the next, and the next.

    This defense is really good, and surprisingly so. Oddly enough, with future HOF Donald, and consistent pro-bowler Ramsey, it’s really a “no-name” group beyond that, meshing really well. Coached really well. I hope it doesn’t happen, but the Rams could lose Staley next season.

    (The McVay tree and so on.)

    I also like their move to tall, athletic linebackers. They swarm. They sack. They knock down passes. And SJ-D seems to be developing up front. This is a team on the rise.

    IMO, they’re a Super Bowl team if Goff plays well, steady, error-free.

    #125498
    Hram
    Participant

    Good win, defense swarmed, red zone defense was awesome!

    Huge use of two TR sets and great blocking by the TEs and the wide receivers. Akers ran pretty darn well. Oline played OK, little too much pressure on Goff when he passed. Goff was only okay.

    Special-teams was average and I hope they get better prior to the playoffs.

    I like a win better than a loss!

    #125501
    zn
    Moderator

    Two favorite plays (though I have more than 2).

    1. The Young INT. Donald gets a little penetration, sees the RB running behind the LOS to a spot to receive the screen pass, and holds him–just long enough for the timing pass to go straight to Young.

    There’s a vid of that one by Geoff Schwartz here: http://theramshuddle.com/topic/highlights-breakdowns-patriots-game/#post-125499

    2. The 4th and 1 on the goal line. Rams bluff going for it trying to get an offsides, and naturally New England does not bite. I mean–they’re New England, they’re not going to bite. Rams call a time out. They line back up to go for it, and–New England bites. Offsides. Because who runs a bluff after already running a bluff and then calling time out.

    I don’t think I have seen that particular gambit in several thousand millenia of watching football.

    ***

    #125503
    Eternal Ramnation
    Participant

    That was fun. The first drive was so fast. Akers with the breakout game. That D is awesome.

    #125508
    wv
    Participant

    Aikman mentioned, in the 2nd quarter, after a Pat DLineman came close to snagging Goff — that Goff sometimes seems oblivious to oncoming rushers.

    Thats how it seems to me, too. Maybe a lack of peripheral-vision or somethin. I dunno. I thought the same thing about Bradford.

    Agree, disagree?

    Just seems like Russell Wilson has a sixth sense about rushers. Yeah they can get him, but they dont ‘surprise’ him. Seems like Goff is ‘surprised’ more than the elite-QBs. But i dunno.

    w
    v

    #125509
    Zooey
    Moderator

    He is either oblivious to it, or has slow reactions. Seems to me.

    Well, he’s not OBLIVIOUS. He sometimes sees it. Just not always.

    #125511
    wv
    Participant

    He is either oblivious to it, or has slow reactions. Seems to me.

    Well, he’s not OBLIVIOUS. He sometimes sees it. Just not always.

    ———–

    Just seems like he gets surprised a bit more than a guy like Wilson.
    All it takes is a couple of surprises to lead to a loss.

    Anyway, aint it nice to have a RUN defense? Remember how many years we complained about the Rams getting gashed in the rungame. Its just SO COOL to see a fundamentally sound defense.

    What changed? New personnel? Staley?

    Brockers is playing at a borderline allpro level imho. Sep.Joesph-Day is Stout.
    The Linebackers fill the gaps. We know about the secondary.

    Its so much fun watching the D.

    w
    v

    #125515
    zn
    Moderator

    Just seems like he gets surprised a bit more than a guy like Wilson.
    All it takes is a couple of surprises to lead to a loss.

    I come in peace to offer a different view. 😎

    IMO the thing about JG being a sitting duck against the rush is being exaggerated. Example–even in just the highlights vid you can see him evade/escape the rush a few times during the game. Before the game, the Patz were 2nd in the league in pressure percentage, and sometimes the rush verged on getting there, but it didn’t because he sensed it and escaped or stepped up… ie. made a play. I even went through the vid and noted a few of those plays. They’re at 1:38, 2:29, & 4;12 in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRWqmdWindA&feature=emb_err_woyt

    He’s not like Wilson when it comes to that but then Wilson is one of the absolute all time best at that. I think what happens with Goff, to be honest, is that some of his worst plays get remembered as this deep indication of who he is…when, no, he is in general better than those worst plays seem to indicate.

    In fact here’s another example from the previous game. Arizona pressured him 16 times, according to PRF. That’s the most he has been pressured since early in 2019 against Tampa (when it was 20 times). But no one thinks of him as having endured heavy pressure in the Arizona game. That’s because he is better at reacting to it than a lot of people seem to be assuming.

    #125521
    wv
    Participant

    Just seems like he gets surprised a bit more than a guy like Wilson.
    All it takes is a couple of surprises to lead to a loss.

    I come in peace to offer a different view. 😎

    IMO the thing about JG being a sitting duck against the rush is being exaggerated. Example–even in just the highlights vid you can see him evade/escape the rush a few times during the game. Before the game, the Patz were 2nd in the league in pressure percentage, and sometimes the rush verged on getting there, but it didn’t because he sensed it and escaped or stepped up… ie. made a play. I even went through the vid and noted a few of those plays. They’re at 1:38, 2:29, & 4;12 in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRWqmdWindA&feature=emb_err_woyt

    He’s not like Wilson when it comes to that but then Wilson is one of the absolute all time best at that. I think what happens with Goff, to be honest, is that some of his worst plays get remembered as this deep indication of who he is…when, no, he is in general better than those worst plays seem to indicate.

    In fact here’s another example from the previous game. Arizona pressured him 16 times, according to PRF. That’s the most he has been pressured since early in 2019 against Tampa (when it was 20 times). But no one thinks of him as having endured heavy pressure in the Arizona game. That’s because he is better at reacting to it than a lot of people seem to be assuming.

    …

    —————–

    Well, we dont see it ‘that’ differently. A little different though.

    I think Goff is good, and i think they can win a title with him, if he’s surrounded by a ring-quality-team. So, I’m not saying he’s got a huge flaw.

    I am comparing him to ‘elite’ QBs in the ‘pocket awareness’ category. Just that category. And I’m saying he does not compare favorably to guys like Wilson.
    Like you say, Wilson is a magician in the pocket. Goff is not.

    Is Goff ‘below average’ in this thing I’ll just call ‘pocket awareness’? Is Goff average in P.A. ? Is he above-average-but-not-elite in PA ?

    I’m not sure.

    I’m just saying he’s nowhere near Wilson, or Fran or Marino. Marino had great PA, as you know. He’d slide twelve inches one way or the other and zing.

    When i watched the college stuff back in the Wentz vs Goff threads, I thought Goff would be a magician in the pocket. Seemed like he was, in college. But i dont see it now.

    w
    v

    #125524
    wv
    Participant

    Aikman is still in love with the Rams Unselfish-WRs.

    He never mentions the Rams WR coach, though. No-one does.

    I dont even know who the Rams-Unselfish-WR-Coach is.

    Someone should find out who he is.

    w
    v

    #125527
    InvaderRam
    Moderator

    I think Goff is good, and i think they can win a title with him, if he’s surrounded by a ring-quality-team. So, I’m not saying he’s got a huge flaw.

    I am comparing him to ‘elite’ QBs in the ‘pocket awareness’ category. Just that category. And I’m saying he does not compare favorably to guys like Wilson.
    Like you say, Wilson is a magician in the pocket. Goff is not.

    Is Goff ‘below average’ in this thing I’ll just call ‘pocket awareness’? Is Goff average in P.A. ? Is he above-average-but-not-elite in PA ?

    yeah.

    i mean i can’t say for sure. i don’t watch too much of the other qbs. but to me he doesn’t stand out in that category. can he improve? possibly. but he’s getting to the point where i almost gotta say that what you see is what you get. he might be able to improve marginally, but i don’t think he’ll ever have the elite pocket awareness.

    he’s really good in other areas. but mcvay will always have to manage goff to a certain extent. he’ll need a strong running game to keep a defense off balance.

    but then. MOST qbs need this. elite qbs are elite for a reason. there are very few of them.

    pocket presence or pocket awareness is one of those things that’s holding goff back. if he could improve in that area, then quite possibly he moves up another level.

    #125530
    Zooey
    Moderator

    Yeah, that’s how I see Goff. I think he is approximately in the 12-15 range in most categories. He is above average in “Shake that shit off,” and he’s above average in accuracy – except for 10% of his throws border on WTF.

    He is ranked 22 in QBR, btw, although two or three of the guys ahead of him haven’t played the entire season.

    #125531
    zn
    Moderator

    pocket presence or pocket awareness is one of those things that’s holding goff back

    Did you see the vid I posted and the plays I named on it?

    IMO people exaggerate this idea that he has no pocket presence, or bad pocket presence, etc.

    New England is 2nd in the league in pressure percentage on defense and I name plays where he evades the rush in the pocket to do something positive.

    He is ranked 22 in QBR

    I don’t do qbr (if you mean the espn qbr system) because it favors qbs who run with the ball. I do old fashioned qb rating.

    How is Goff without the 3 bad games? (which I don’t put all on him.) By qb ranking, the other 10 games, he averages out to 10th in the league.

    So it all depends on what people think is up with those 3 bad games.

    For some those games seem to dominate everything they think of the guy.

    For some they are part of a bigger dynamic.

    Either way I know I can go through the vids and point to the plays where he IS doing what the more negative take says he can’t or doesn’t do.

    ….

    #125535
    Herzog
    Participant

    Aikman mentioned, in the 2nd quarter, after a Pat DLineman came close to snagging Goff — that Goff sometimes seems oblivious to oncoming rushers.

    Thats how it seems to me, too. Maybe a lack of peripheral-vision or somethin. I dunno. I thought the same thing about Bradford.

    Agree, disagree?

    Just seems like Russell Wilson has a sixth sense about rushers. Yeah they can get him, but they dont ‘surprise’ him. Seems like Goff is ‘surprised’ more than the elite-QBs. But i dunno.

    w
    v

    Agree, 1000%

    #125536
    Herzog
    Participant

    Remember two weeks ago I was asking for 2 TE sets, and we were all like, Nah Mcvay won’t do that.

    Well, he did it the majority of the time in that last game. I’m quite certain Mcvay must have read my post and changed his game plan accordingly.

    YOUR WELCOME EVERYONE!

    #125539
    Zooey
    Moderator

    I don’t do qbr (if you mean the espn qbr system) because it favors qbs who run with the ball. I do old fashioned qb rating.

    Either way I know I can go through the vids and point to the plays where he IS doing what the more negative take says he can’t or doesn’t do.

    ….

    I don’t know. It was CBSSportsline. Stats. QB ranks by “rating.” Whatever. I was actually surprised. I would have guessed, just eyeballing it, that Goff is in the 12 – 15 range.

    #125541
    InvaderRam
    Moderator

    How is Goff without the 3 bad games? (which I don’t put all on him.) By qb ranking, the other 10 games, he averages out to 10th in the league.

    but you have to include the bad games.

    is too much being made of his pocket awareness or lack of awareness? possibly.

    for me it’s not enough to just point to plays where he does demonstrate pocket awareness. it has to be compared to his peers.

    i don’t know how you comparatively measure pocket awareness though.

    just taking passer rating though. ne allows an 87 passer rating. goff had a rating in the 70s… but i don’t put that int on him. i think he performed better than what his rating indicates.

    and even if i were to agree to take his three bad games away (which i wouldn’t), he’s still ranked 10th which puts him at my 10-15 ranking as a qb.

    #125543
    zn
    Moderator

    for me it’s not enough to just point to plays where he does demonstrate pocket awareness. it has to be compared to his peers.

    I don’t think that’s significant at all, frankly. I mean either he can handle pressure or the rush or he can’t. To me it doesn’t matter who does it better or who isn’t as good.

    There’s this myth that he is always bad in the pocket.

    And–he’s not. I can show plays from each game that demonstrates that.

    But, people get these impressions, and the plays from each game that I point to apparently just don’t count. 😎

    Arizona pressured him 16 times. That’s the most he has been pressured for more than a year. He did fine in that game. We don’t have the numbers on the Patz game yet (PFR does them). But as I said the Patz are 2nd in the league in pressure percentage. He played well in both games. For a 9-4 team leading its division.

    #125544
    zn
    Moderator

    . Seems like Goff is ‘surprised’ more than the elite-QBs. But i dunno.

    w
    v

    Agree, 1000%

    Well if this a debate about whether Goff is “elite,” I dunno man, who is arguing that he IS? I don’t think anyone argues that. He’s not Brady, Wilson, Rodgers, Mahomes, and no one ever argues that he is. But there are a lot of tiers after that one before you get to “just average.” He’s not Warner. But he’s better than Ferragamo, Bulger, and Everett, all of whom were in on their share of Rams winning games.

    I say he’s a top 12-10 qb and maybe a bit higher.

    In terms of being surprised by the rush? Does that happen more often than most? I would say not–and I even posted a vid (which no one is looking at) that shows him handling the rush. Like literally escaping rushers either to make a throw or run for some yards.

    I think the truth is that some people REMEMBER the bad plays harder, so to speak.😎 And then don’t look at the vid showing the good plays. 😉

    #125547
    InvaderRam
    Moderator

    But, people get these impressions, and the plays from each game that I point to apparently just don’t count.

    no. they do count. but they have to be taken into a larger context.

    if he only demonstrates it one out of ten times. and i’m not saying that’s the case with goff. i’m just saying hypothetically. then that’s not good.

    or if he is demonstrates it 5 out of 10 times. and the average nfl qb demonstrates it 7 out of 10 times, then that’s not very good.

    i don’t know. now i’m curious to see how he compares to all nfl qbs in that category.

    #125548
    zn
    Moderator

    But, people get these impressions, and the plays from each game that I point to apparently just don’t count.

    no. they do count. but they have to be taken into a larger context.

    if he only demonstrates it one out of ten times. and i’m not saying that’s the case with goff. i’m just saying hypothetically. then that’s not good.

    or if he is demonstrates it 5 out of 10 times. and the average nfl qb demonstrates it 7 out of 10 times, then that’s not very good.

    i don’t know. now i’m curious to see how he compares to all nfl qbs in that category.

    The context is this (a stat-head on a different board explored this). Goff strip sacks and fumbles happen in bunches. This year it’s 2 games. This goes all the way back to 2017.

    I don’t have comparative numbers. But the reason I keep saying people magnify this is because they expect it all the time BUT historically it happens in discrete bunches (this year 2 games).

    If he has the ability to sense the rush and bail on it, which he has shown (like I demonstrated with the highlights vid from the Patz game), then, he has that ability. Just watching him I don’t expect Wilson but I also don’t expect those “massive bad plays in 2 games” syndrome to repeat, either.

    ….

    #125549
    Zooey
    Moderator

    There’s this myth that he is always bad in the pocket.

    No, there isn’t. There’s the observation that he isn’t one of those QBs who is slippery, and – like most QBs – his effectiveness can drop significantly under constant pressure. Few QBs transcend that, but very few of them ever had Kill Kurt drills.

    You say 12-10. Most of us are saying 10-15. That’s why we’re having a board war, and if you can’t take it, maybe you should surrender like Chris Everett.

Viewing 30 posts - 1 through 30 (of 42 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

Comments are closed.