Are the polls accurate this time?

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  • #117877
    wv
    Participant

    Are the polls more accurate this time around?

    link:https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/12/upshot/polls-2020-trump-biden.html

    Are State Polls Any Better Than They Were in 2016?

    The risk of a systematic error is lower this time, but there are still issues that seem to tilt these surveys to the left.
    Nate Cohn

    To most, Joe Biden’s clear lead in recent state polls suggests that he has the early edge in the race for the presidency. To others, it’s not so meaningful. After all, Hillary Clinton also held a clear lead in the state polls, and yet Donald J. Trump won the election.

    Four years later, it’s fair to wonder whether there is a serious risk of another systematic polling error. The answer is not cut and dried.

    There is always a chance of a systematic polling error, even when the reasons aren’t evident in advance. This time, there are obvious causes for concern. Many state polls suffer from the same methodological issues that were partly or even largely responsible for the miss four years ago, despite many opportunities to improve. Yet at the same time, many of the major causes of error in 2016 seem somewhat less acute.

    What’s better than in 2016: undecided voters

    One major source of the 2016 polling error is much less of a factor than it was four years ago: voters who are undecided or say they will vote for a minor-party candidate. These voters appeared to break overwhelmingly toward Mr. Trump, especially in the relatively white, working-class battleground states.

    This time, far fewer voters are telling pollsters they’re undecided, and that means less room for a late shift among these voters to cause a polling error. At this point in 2016, about 20 percent of voters either supported a minor-party candidate or said they were undecided. Today, the number is about half that level.

    What’s a little better than in 2016: education weighting

    Another source of polling error was the failure of many state pollsters to adjust their samples to adequately represent voters without a college degree. Voters with a college degree are far likelier to respond to telephone surveys than voters without one, and in 2016 the latter group was far likelier to support Mr. Trump. Over all, weighting by education shifted the typical national poll by around four percentage points toward Mr. Trump, helping explain why the national polls fared better than state polls.

    Four years later, weighting by education remains just as important. The gap in the preference of white voters with or without a college degree is essentially unchanged, despite the appeal Mr. Biden was supposed to have with less educated white voters.

    In the New York Times/Siena College surveys conducted in October, Mr. Biden’s combined lead over Mr. Trump in the core six battleground states — Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Arizona, Florida and North Carolina — was two percentage points. That lead would have been six percentage points had the polls not been weighted by education or turnout (which correlates with education).

    Although they could still be doing better, more pollsters are weighting by education today than four years ago. Over all, 46 percent of the more than 30 pollsters who have released a state survey since March 1 appeared to weight by self-reported education, up from around 20 percent of battleground state pollsters in 2016.

    Some of the increase is because a handful of pollsters have decided to start weighting by education, a prominent example being the Monmouth University poll. But more of the change is because of the high volume of state online polls, which have always been likelier than state telephone surveys to weight by education.

    What could be worse than in 2016: new online polls

    There has been a surge in new online-only state polls. Over the last month, there have been 13 such surveys, representing nearly half of the pollsters who have conducted state polls over this period. In contrast, only 10 online-only pollsters conducted surveys over the final three weeks of the 2018 election, which was about 10 percent of all of the pollsters who conducted surveys in that period.

    Online polling isn’t necessarily bad. Many are sophisticated and comparable in quality to a typical live-interview telephone survey. But most of these new state polls take a simple approach: Contact the members of a large online panel, then weight those respondents by standard census demographics and maybe recalled vote choice in 2016 (more on that later). This is inexpensive and easy, but most pollsters have concluded that it’s not great. The panels just aren’t sufficiently representative, especially in small states, to expect a simple methodology to yield a high-quality result.

    Until recently, few pollsters have tried to use this approach in state polling (Morning Consult is the most prolific example of a pollster that has done it nationally). But the early evidence suggests that these kind of state polls might lean to the left.

    Perhaps the best early data is the AP/NORC/VoteCast polling ahead of the midterms, which combined a traditional telephone survey of 40,000 respondents with a large nonprobability online sample of 110,000 respondents. The online-only element of the survey was fairly comparable to most of the online surveys released in recent weeks, and it wouldn’t have fared well without calibration using the live-interview surveys. It would have overestimated the Democratic result by an average of about five percentage points across 71 races.

    A special congressional election in West Friendship, Md., late last month. The presidential election is less than six months away.
    A special congressional election in West Friendship, Md., late last month. The presidential election is less than six months away.Credit…Edwin Ramirez/EPA, via Shutterstock

    Similarly, the new online polls tend to lean to the left of the state telephone polls so far this cycle. In polls conducted since March 15, Mr. Biden has run 6.6 percentage points ahead of Mrs. Clinton’s margin in online state polls, compared with a gain of 3.7 points in live-interview telephone surveys. Notably, the latter figure comes very close to Mr. Biden’s gain in national polls — about four points — over the same period.

    Over the long run, these polls might make up a smaller share of the battleground polling than they have so far. But it seems inevitable that new online polls will represent a larger share of state polls this cycle, and so far the best indications are that they’ll lean to the left.

    What could be worse than in 2016: recalled vote weighting

    More and more, pollsters with fairly mediocre sampling methods are relying on a new tool to bring their results closer to reality: recalled 2016 vote. Here, the pollster asks respondents whether they voted for Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Trump, then adjusts the sample so that the recalled vote choice matches the actual result of the 2016 election.

    Weighting on recalled vote choice certainly has its advantages. You could probably hammer even the worst survey into the ballpark. You could probably get a plausible poll result for Wyoming using a sample of New Yorkers this way.

    But although this is a surefire way to reduce error, it is very hard to execute without risking a modest systematic bias. And here again, the bias would tend to be toward the Democrats.

    There’s a large body of evidence suggesting that people are likelier to recall voting for the winner and less likely to recall voting for the loser. If so, polls weighting on recalled past vote would tend to be biased toward the party that lost the prior election.

    It seems that this effect is, at the very least, substantially diminished compared with a decade ago. Even so, it might still be there. In the Times/Siena polls from October, for instance, 6 percent of 2016 voters refused to say whether they backed Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Trump. Those voters backed Mr. Biden by a two-to-one margin, suggesting that they were probably likelier to have supported Mrs. Clinton.

    Another issue is that today’s registered voters aren’t exactly the same as those of four years ago: In the interim some people have either died, reached voting age, or moved elsewhere. So it is not appropriate to assume that people who voted in 2016, and are now registered to vote, backed Mr. Trump or Mrs. Clinton by the same margin as in the 2016 result.

    It is hard to say whether this is generalizable, but over all 13 percent of the voters who took the Times/Siena polls in 2016 are no longer on their state voter file, and those voters backed Mrs. Clinton by a six-point margin, compared with a one-point lead for Mr. Trump among those who remain registered in the state. Here again, recalled vote weighting might bias a poll by only one percentage point in Mr. Biden’s favor, but the risks start to add up.

    Nate Cohn is a domestic correspondent for The Upshot. He covers elections, polling and

    #117878
    wv
    Participant

    =================
    Trump has a point about the polls

    Some pollsters are still grappling with the same problems that plagued battleground state surveys four years ago.
    link:https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/17/trump-polls-biden-324210
    “….
    ……..But some pollsters, especially the relatively few who conduct surveys in battleground states, are still grappling with the problems that plagued those polls four years ago. In fact, most pollsters believe that, on balance, state polls are overstating the scale of Biden’s advantage.

    That was precisely the problem in 2016: The national polls were largely accurate, to within the margin of error. But there were too few state polls, and many of those that were conducted failed to collect accurate data, especially from white voters without college degrees in key swing states.

    And those issues haven’t been fixed.

    “I would say that most, if not all, of the concerns that we expressed still hold — some to a lesser degree,” said Courtney Kennedy, director of research at the Pew Research Center and lead author of the polling industry’s post-2016 autopsy. “But I think some of the fundamental, structural challenges that came to a head in 2016 are still in place in 2020.”

    Polling errors are not uncommon in presidential elections. But pollsters see a real risk this year that the mistakes of 2016 will be repeated. Their colleagues still are not accounting for the fact that voters with greater educational attainment are more likely to complete surveys — and more likely to vote for Democratic candidates.

    “There’s still a number of state polls, in particular, that are not fixing this issue,” said Kennedy.
    ….
    ……
    …….. — the problem that pollsters identified in 2016 remains. Not enough surveys are being conducted in the battleground states, and those that exist are failing to account for a key political dynamic of modern politics, especially in the Trump era: the rapid movement of lower-income white voters to Republicans and upscale whites to Democrats.

    Pollsters are looking for answers. One of the major takeaways of the American Association for Public Opinion Research’s post-2016 autopsy was that state polls that didn’t weight, or adjust, their samples to include more white voters who hadn’t graduated college missed a key element of Trump’s coalition. In previous elections, the differences in white voters’ preferences along educational lines were smaller, but they began to grow during the past decade and accelerated with Trump on the ballot in 2016.

    “Before 2014, it wasn’t that big of a deal because the reality is non-college white voters and college-educated white voters — the distinction between the two wasn’t as dramatic,” said Democratic pollster Jefrey Pollock. “But starting with 2014, that began to cleave a lot and is now obviously humongous.”

    GOP pollster Glen Bolger said he believes a combination of pollsters’ inability to get the right educational mix and to persuade potential Trump voters to respond and answer truthfully to phone polls is pointing their surveys in a slightly Democratic direction.

    “I don’t know how big the effect is. I also don’t know what the ratio is between it being ‘shy Trump’ voters and interviewing too many college graduates and not enough non-college grads,” Bolger said. “But I do think those are factors in some of the polls that show a particularly wide lead for Biden at this point in time. And I do think that things will be closer in the states than the polls indicate right now.”

    …..
    ……

    At last week’s annual convention of the American Association of Public Opinion Research — held online because of the coronavirus pandemic — Nate Cohn, the New York Times data journalist who has worked with Siena College on their multimillion-dollar polling partnership, observed that the state polls leaned way too far toward Democrats in 2014 and 2016. In 2018, he said, the polls were more accurate but still showed a Democratic slant, especially “in a number of white, working-class states,” like Indiana and Ohio.

    And, Cohn noted in his presentation, it might be happening again this year.

    “So far in 2020, it sure seems like Joe Biden is faring particularly well in the states where the polls were most biased toward Hillary Clinton four years ago,” Cohn told the virtual attendees.

    As if on cue, a new poll was released in Michigan on Tuesday: It showed Biden ahead by a whopping 16 points.

    #117879
    wv
    Participant

    link:https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/isnt-hillary-clintons-polling/613690/
    Believe the Polls This Time

    These aren’t Hillary Clinton’s numbers. Biden has a wide lead because the landscape has changed.
    July 2, 2020
    Stanley Greenberg
    Political strategist and polling adviser

    “…So one reason to trust my polls more now than in 2016 is this change: Four years ago, those without a four-year degree made up 48 percent of my survey respondents; today they account for 60 percent. Whites without a college degree were 33 percent of my surveys; today they are 43 percent. That is a huge change—an elixir against being deceived again. The pain of Trump’s victory and disastrous presidency has concentrated the minds of campaign staff and the polling profession in ways that give me confidence that Biden’s lead in the polls is real.

    But much more important than all of that is the sustained, unwavering, and extremely well-documented opposition of the American people to every element of Donald Trump’s sexist, nativist, and racist vision. Indeed, the public’s deep aversion to Trumpism explains why Biden has such a poll lead…

    …..
    …..

    #117881
    wv
    Participant

    link:https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/11/politics/what-matters-july-10/index.html
    ======================
    Are there actually any undecided voters?
    What Matters: I don’t know anyone who doesn’t have an opinion about Trump. Is there a universe of undecided people who will decide the election?

    JA: Not very many. And the downside for Trump is that as an incumbent, views on him are likely to matter far more than views on Biden. One of the most fascinating things about the 2016 exit poll results was that voters who view both Trump and Hillary Clinton unfavorably broke heavily toward Trump, and there were even a decently sized set of voters who felt Trump was not qualified to be president, but still voted for him.
    As a sitting President, it’s unlikely that Trump would get the benefit of the doubt from those voters again has he not convinced them he deserves to remain in office.
    —-
    One last question
    What Matters: I’m asking for a wild guess here, but what are the odds we know the identity of the next President on Election Night?

    JA: Oh to know the answer to that question!

    At this point, it seems unlikely that we’ll know the outcome on Election Night itself. While a number of key battlegrounds are used to processing a lot of absentee or early votes (Florida and Arizona most notably, where majorities typically vote absentee or early), several other critical states for the electoral college count are relatively new to the absentee ballot process. In Pennsylvania, for example, just 8% of voters cast ballots absentee or early in 2016, in New Hampshire, it was 10%, in Virginia, 13%, and in Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin, it was around a quarter of voters — which suggests their counts could be slower than usual if those numbers spike dramatically.
    One growing trend in recent elections is that vote preferences among those who vote in-person are often different from those who vote absentee or early, and the politicization of behavior in the coronavirus era seems as if it could exacerbate those differences, making it difficult to project races until there is a solid number of reports from both groups of voters.

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