What do we think/feel ? Anything?

Not only are they doing it on film, a lot of people in this country seem perfectly okay with it, even delight in it.

I think it’s questionable what would happen if Trump just declared martial law. Was it here, or on FB where I saw the special letter he sent out selling camo MAGA hats “exclusively” for members of the Trump army to wear to identify themselves? He is going “there.”

I did see somebody (Joint Chief of Staffs?) say the other day that the military would not obey unlawful orders. So that may be a good thing.

Yeah.

It is very easy to succumb to despair in these times, but two things prevent me from doing so.

1) This shit is all by design. I really do think that this excessive and very public violence is meant to overwhelm people and have them retreat due to mental, physical, emotional and spiritual exhaustion. I really do think the powers that be are sick and tired of pretending that they aren’t in charge, are tired of having to answer to a process and much like public education see what we have as too much freedom, too much democracy, too much information which is why we see such powerful and sustained attacks on everything which informs viable self-determination. And fuck that if I’m gonna give in to these assholes.

2) So many people especially Zoomers are jumping into this fight with both feet and I’ll be damned if I’m gonna not do everything I can to support them. All they may need from me is my mass as they hope to create gravity for their movement. Well, I can do that. I can elevate their cause and I can be the change that they seek. I can’t lead and I’ll be damned if I get out of the way, so follow it is.

I honestly have said for some time now that if we held an election about whether to remain a democracy or not and EVERYONE had to vote up or down, that much like Brexit, the down with democracy would pass. I ESPECIALLY felt that way when Obama was President and all the centrists and shitlibs not only fell asleep, but were pissed about anyone trying to wake them up to the atrocities going on.

This is why I don’t trust the centrists and liberals with anything on principle. They are more concerned with being able to go back to sleep than to fix the structural problems. It’s like the roof is leaking and they only give a shit when the water is falling on them. They don’t care when someone else is getting wet, nor do they care about the damage to the house. And that bullshit is frustrating as hell, but we might as well use them while we can.

Anyway, I really feel strongly that I cannot give in to despair as long as there’s someone fighting.

In my MMOs that I play, a party would be in a Raid (20-40 people) or a dungeon (4-5 people) and against a boss, there would be times when everyone, but one person was dead. Sometimes, instead of giving into despair, that person would continue to fight…and win…alone against a big boss. I’ve had those moments where it seemed that we’d all die and have to start over, but I kept fighting, going through my rotation, keeping my guard up and avoiding damage and winning the battle.

These mostly young-uns are fighting the big fight… honestly, as close to a civil war as we may come especially with Trump in the White House and they’re winning. This the same generation that due to being separated from having anything, are free from undue loyalties, free from unlearned prejudices, free from uninstilled dogma. They’ve brought Trillion dollar corporations to heel and are changing politics as we speak. A single tweet that goes viral can seriously damage a company’s bottom line for an entire year or more, end a politicians career or start a movement.

There are days where I just can’t… but I realize it’s not up to me. Boomers and GenX fucked it up in so many ways and this Gen is fighting the fight that we should have fought. I mean, the fact that this country wasn’t shut down by either the Rodney King beating (let alone that trial) or Sandy Hook demonstrates our failure.

If we’re just talking about the US and our relatively brief history, police violence has always been with us, of course. But I don’t think we’ve seen such a widespread attempt, from the top down, to promote a culture of cruelty, prior to Trump. At least not since Andrew Jackson. And, to make this worse, a culture of avoiding responsibility for that cruelty.

Impunity. A culture of cruelty with impunity.

He ran on that. He ran on cruelty to immigrants, black and brown people in general, dissenters, critics, reporters, especially female reporters . . . to anyone who dared say something critical about him. He ran as someone the supposedly “forgotten (white) man” could cheer on for that cruelty . . . so they could live vicariously through Trump. So they could cheer on someone who gets away with doing stuff they typically can’t do, or at least do so easily.

And once he got into power, he continued to avoid responsibility for his horrific actions. He got away with putting kids in cages, destroying environmental regs, destroying the civil rights division of the DoJ, gutting workplace regs, and stacking the courts with far-right judges. He got away with colluding with Russia and strong-arming Ukraine. He got away with endlessly attacking, bashing, insulting all of his critics, threatening them with goddess knows what — doing goddess knows what. It may just be now, after he sent out unidentified, heavily militarized jack-boots to clear peaceful protests — for a photo op at a church!! that he may finally pay for his crimes. But who knows?

To make a long story short . . . yeah, this police violence, the violence of the capitalist system it protects . . . . these things have been with us for centuries. But we’ve never had a president/admin (until now) that seemed to relish its cruelty, expand and amplify it so proudly, or scream out the message of who counts as “American” and who doesn’t. Trump has made it abundantly clear to the powerful and their lackeys that they have carte blanche to go after those who don’t count in Trumpland.

Forgot to mention this atrocity:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/detained-migrants-say-they-were-forced-clean-covid-infected-ice-n1228831

Migrant detainees forced to clean up Covid-infected ICE buildings in Arizona. Why isn’t this the subject of Congressional hearings/Inspector General reports, etc.?

The perfect, obscene storm of racism, the culture of cruelty and privatization.

ZN,

Definitely a great thing to see the sustained protests and the large majority of Americans who support them. That is amazing and wonderful. Heart-warming, to be sure.

I think some of the reactions to Trump’s continued calls for military invasions of American cities are hopeful as well, but the calls themselves are obviously ominous. They don’t bode well for November, IMO. The reactions do. Trump’s tweets and conspiracy theories don’t, nor does the continued escalation of rhetoric regarding “antifa” from right-wing media.

So, basically, it’s a mix. Great news, horrific news. We perhaps should focus more on the former . . .

(Using your suggestions from the linking post, will add try two articles of possible interest by themselves below)

Trump’s rage at another governor makes him look weak and pathetic
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/06/11/trumps-rage-another-governor-makes-him-look-weak-pathetic/

“Go back to your bunker”: Mayor rejects Trump threat to invade Seattle over peaceful “cop-free” zone
https://www.salon.com/2020/06/11/go-back-to-your-bunker-mayor-rejects-trump-threat-to-invade-seattle-over-peaceful-cop-free-zone/

ZN,

Thanks for reposting those links. Will try to remember the chat option.

I know you mentioned there were obvious reasons for the inability to form effective coalitions on the basis of “class.” But I think the topic is still worth hashing out, despite the potential for stating the obvious.

It’s always struck me as baffling that when America and most of the West was far less unequal, economically — during the 1960s — it seemed easier to form those coalitions. Just three people today — Bezos, Gates and Zuckerburg — control more wealth than the bottom half of the nation combined . . . and CEOs routinely make hundreds to thousands of times their rank and file. That would have been unthinkable when MLK and RFK talked about economic justice for Americans, and the young, especially, demanded economic equality.

It’s complicated, complex, etc. etc. . . . but I still think it’s important to discuss. Why then, but not now? Today’s 99% has never been further away from the 1%. Economic hierarchies have never been this steep. The system hasn’t been this plutocrat-friendly since the first Gilded Age, etc.

Strange days, these.

zn wrote:

Billy_T wrote:

ZN,

Thanks for reposting those links. Will try to remember the chat option.

I know you mentioned there were obvious reasons for the inability to form effective coalitions on the basis of “class.” But I think the topic is still worth hashing out, despite the potential for stating the obvious.

It’s always struck me as baffling that when America and most of the West was far less unequal, economically — during the 1960s — it seemed easier to form those coalitions. Just three people today — Bezos, Gates and Zuckerburg — control more wealth than the bottom half of the nation combined . . . and CEOs routinely make hundreds to thousands of times their rank and file. That would have been unthinkable when MLK and RFK talked about economic justice for Americans, and the young, especially, demanded economic equality.

It’s complicated, complex, etc. etc. . . . but I still think it’s important to discuss. Why then, but not now? Today’s 99% has never been further away from the 1%. Economic hierarchies have never been this steep. The system hasn’t been this plutocrat-friendly since the first Gilded Age, etc.

Strange days, these.

Just improvising here, without much depth to it. But I think in different ways people are blind to both class and race.

The difference is, that racial issues can potentially touch on people’s almost innate dedication to ideas of human rights and equality before the law. It resonates. You have to crack through a wall of blindness, but when you do, it resonates.

Class should too but it doesn’t.

So you see vids like I saw posted where a 12 year old girl argues with her parents about the BLM protests. The parents loudly claim it’s just lazy people who want to live off the system, and she protests that no, there’s real racial injustice.

Ask the same 12 year old girl about the Occupy movement and of course, she has no idea what it’s about.

Race issues then can form alliances across a wide spectrum of people, including elites. Class issues threaten elites and blind most regular folks–unless it takes the form of resenting liberal elites for their privilege, which of course they do have.

That’s me in 3 minutes of uniformed improvisation. On this I want to hear a lot of voices and what others think.

….

The UK recognizes and understands class very well. I don’t think a lot of Americans even think it exists here, or if it does, believe it’s something that can be overcome. “If you simply work hard enough…” Maybe the “rugged individualism” we’re bathed in from birth prevents us from seeing it, or at least greatly lessens its perceived importance.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 4 months ago by nittany ram.

Aragorn: Haleth son of Háma…there is always hope.