CNBC American Greed..

[Rookie]

That is a great show that not many know about. Recently they had the TYCO thing on.
It is amazing how foolish and believe Americans should be endowed with riches.
Want to watch a good one "The Last Days of Lehman Brothers "

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1495980/

[Thordaddy]

That is a great show that not many know about. Recently they had the TYCO thing on.
It is amazing how foolish and believe Americans should be endowed with riches.
Want to watch a good one "The Last Days of Lehman Brothers "

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1495980/

Well Rook, I'm not sure what the point of the post was,but I love your sig.

Is there any way in your estimation a government would be afraid of it's people if it effected a gun ban?

[Rookie]

I m not sure if there is a "Line in the Sand" when it comes to gun control. I am comforted by knowing that no sane country will try to take us over with a gun(Though Mexico/Drugs) is trying. That is no longer my concern. Bio weapons are the one to worry about. Liberal when freedom involved, selfless in health for everyone and believe small business is the engine to help.

[Thordaddy]

I m not sure if there is a "Line in the Sand" when it comes to gun control. I am comforted by knowing that no sane country will try to take us over with a gun(Though Mexico/Drugs) is trying. That is no longer my concern. Bio weapons are the one to worry about. Liberal when freedom involved, selfless in health for everyone and believe small business is the engine to help.

Ya know I'm not trying to pick a fight here,but liberal to me when it comes to freedom is a contradiction in terms,see I don't subscribe to liberality of thought being congruent with liberal governance.I take the meaning of liberal governance to mean used in liberal amounts and I can't see that a bigger government can possibly supply more freedom because each endowment it creates is at a cost to another.
For example IF healthcare becomes a right it by definition requires someone else to supply it which NATURALY diminishes the suppliers ability to supply HIS OWN.
I don't deny there are economies of scale but when that scale is forced, when the duty to supply becomes the governments behavioral controls are on the table as cost control measures,we are seeing it NOW in cities like Chi. where they are limiting salt in foods, NY where it's being suggested that soda be limited to given sizes. In the end a government big enough to supply all has to own all or at least exert domain over all. No way governments that big fear the people.
Anyway, thanks for the reply ,I'm pretty libertarian on the drug issue ,IMO most of the gun violence we have now is drug related and JMO prohibition is more a "liberal" application of governance and repeal is a thought process indicating "liberality". IF that makes sense to you ?
Anyway, keep posting ,I'd like to hear more.

[Eternal Ramnation]

The government of France is terrified of it's people.

Protests and Riots Result from Social Inequality and High Unemployment

Rioting erupted on Oct. 27, 2005, in the impoverished outskirts of Paris and continued for two weeks, spreading to 300 towns and cities throughout France. It was the worst violence the country has faced in four decades. The rioting was sparked by the accidental deaths of two teenagers, one of French-Arab and the other of French-African descent, and grew into a violent protest against the bleak lives of poor French-Arabs and French-Africans, many of whom live in depressed, crime-ridden areas with high unemployment and who feel alienated from the rest of French society.

In March and April 2006, a series of protests took place over a proposed labor law that would allow employers to fire workers under age 26 within two years without giving a reason. The law was intended to control high unemployment among France's young workers. The protests continued after President Chirac signed a somewhat amended bill into law. But on April 10, Chirac relented and rescinded the law, an embarrassing about-face for the government.



Read more: France: Maps, History, Geography, Government, Culture, Facts, Guide & Travel/Holidays/Cities — Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0107517. ... z22XfeIXSy

[phantmjokr]

Is it credible that the democracy that has annihilated the feudal system and vanquished Kings will respect the citizen and the capitalist? - Alexis de Toqueville

Democracy is a mob trying to get even. To get equality, and given the right circumstance that will lay low any person or institution that is in their way. Or, in a Democracy, it is always a state of class warfare. Against the first American kings of commerce, the robber barons, we wrote laws against Monopoly and Trust.

Or, there is a reason why the wealthy in America have to spend billions on propaganda. In the anecdote about 3 wolves and a sheep voting on dinner they'd like to think they are one of the wolves, but actually, and they deep down know it, they are the sheep...

[Thordaddy]

Is it credible that the democracy that has annihilated the feudal system and vanquished Kings will respect the citizen and the capitalist? - Alexis de Toqueville

Democracy is a mob trying to get even. To get equality, and given the right circumstance that will lay low any person or institution that is in their way. Or, in a Democracy, it is always a state of class warfare. Against the first American kings of commerce, the robber barons, we wrote laws against Monopoly and Trust.

Or, there is a reason why the wealthy in America have to spend billions on propaganda. In the anecdote about 3 wolves and a sheep voting on dinner they'd like to think they are one of the wolves, but actually, and they deep down know it, they are the sheep...

Trying is the operative word because of course they won't be getting equality if they take by force since the property rights of their victim will have been denied by their confiscation.
I just wonder why that statement singled out the wealthy in America as if the wealthy of other countries had less to fear from the "mob" and class warfare.

I had to chortle a little at ER's reference to the riots in France where the riots took weeks to get what they wanted as if that same mob armed with AK 47's and Ruger mini 14's would have had to wait weeks,make no mistake fear of the people is exponentialy more the better "regulated" they are.

I LOVE references to France , a country dominated by union bosses who get symbolic laws that assure the continuous growth of unemployment and underground economy at the same time.

[Eternal Ramnation]

Is it credible that the democracy that has annihilated the feudal system and vanquished Kings will respect the citizen and the capitalist? - Alexis de Toqueville

Democracy is a mob trying to get even. To get equality, and given the right circumstance that will lay low any person or institution that is in their way. Or, in a Democracy, it is always a state of class warfare. Against the first American kings of commerce, the robber barons, we wrote laws against Monopoly and Trust.

Or, there is a reason why the wealthy in America have to spend billions on propaganda. In the anecdote about 3 wolves and a sheep voting on dinner they'd like to think they are one of the wolves, but actually, and they deep down know it, they are the sheep...

Trying is the operative word because of course they won't be getting equality if they take by force since the property rights of their victim will have been denied by their confiscation.
I just wonder why that statement singled out the wealthy in America as if the wealthy of other countries had less to fear from the "mob" and class warfare.



I had to chortle a little at ER's reference to the riots in France where the riots took weeks to get what they wanted as if that same mob armed with AK 47's and Ruger mini 14's would have had to wait weeks,make no mistake fear of the people is exponentialy more the better "regulated" they are.

I LOVE references to France , a country dominated by union bosses who get symbolic laws that assure the continuous growth of unemployment and underground economy at the same time.

How is Syria's mob doing? Small arms fire is not effective against a government that can and will have a drone put a maverick through your roof at 3am. Yes like the US's economy is doing so much better. Not Union bosses but united people.

[Thordaddy]

Is it credible that the democracy that has annihilated the feudal system and vanquished Kings will respect the citizen and the capitalist? - Alexis de Toqueville

Democracy is a mob trying to get even. To get equality, and given the right circumstance that will lay low any person or institution that is in their way. Or, in a Democracy, it is always a state of class warfare. Against the first American kings of commerce, the robber barons, we wrote laws against Monopoly and Trust.

Or, there is a reason why the wealthy in America have to spend billions on propaganda. In the anecdote about 3 wolves and a sheep voting on dinner they'd like to think they are one of the wolves, but actually, and they deep down know it, they are the sheep...

Trying is the operative word because of course they won't be getting equality if they take by force since the property rights of their victim will have been denied by their confiscation.
I just wonder why that statement singled out the wealthy in America as if the wealthy of other countries had less to fear from the "mob" and class warfare.



I had to chortle a little at ER's reference to the riots in France where the riots took weeks to get what they wanted as if that same mob armed with AK 47's and Ruger mini 14's would have had to wait weeks,make no mistake fear of the people is exponentialy more the better "regulated" they are.

I LOVE references to France , a country dominated by union bosses who get symbolic laws that assure the continuous growth of unemployment and underground economy at the same time.

How is Syria's mob doing? Small arms fire is not effective against a government that can and will have a drone put a maverick through your roof at 3am. Yes like the US's economy is doing so much better. Not Union bosses but united people.

I imagine they are doing far better than they would be with pitchforks and they could use the defection of some missle battery soldiers to help but ya know the big woman has not sung yet and they believe they are fighting for something rather than submitting so I would rather celebrate their courage than their demise and subjugation the way you have decided to.
AND yes the US economy is doing quite a lot better but if the unions get as much sway here as they have there the results will be very similar. They accept 10% as a normal level of unemployment there, we think 9% is horrid and change leaders over it.
BTW they passed a 1-2 percent SYMBOLIC minimum wage increase there to appease the unions even though it will only retard a reduction in that 10.2% unemployment rate.

[Eternal Ramnation]

AND yes the US economy is doing quite a lot better but if the unions get as much sway here as they have there the results will be very similar. They accept 10% as a normal level of unemployment there, we think 9% is horrid and change leaders over it.
BTW they passed a 1-2 percent SYMBOLIC minimum wage increase there to appease the unions even though it will only retard a reduction in that 10.2% unemployment rate.

Ya know instead of just makin' shit up you,being the self professed econ expert should have knowledge that proves just the opposite. Track income and unemployment from when Grand Pa Homeless started his war on unions to now that unions are on life support. As far as minimum wage goes you still have offered no data. I was able to experience the bountiful economy of "free market" labor unencumbered by minimum wages or unions in South East Asia this Spring and I can tell you ,you are categorically full of shit.

[Thordaddy]

AND yes the US economy is doing quite a lot better but if the unions get as much sway here as they have there the results will be very similar. They accept 10% as a normal level of unemployment there, we think 9% is horrid and change leaders over it.
BTW they passed a 1-2 percent SYMBOLIC minimum wage increase there to appease the unions even though it will only retard a reduction in that 10.2% unemployment rate.

Ya know instead of just makin' shit up you,being the self professed econ expert should have knowledge that proves just the opposite. Track income and unemployment from when Grand Pa Homeless started his war on unions to now that unions are on life support. As far as minimum wage goes you still have offered no data. I was able to experience the bountiful economy of "free market" labor unencumbered by minimum wages or unions in South East Asia this Spring and I can tell you ,you are categorically full of shit.

Well I have no clue who "Grandpa Homeless" is nor what the fuck his war on unions entailed.
As far as your trip to S E Asia, you had WHAT exactly to compare it to presently versus when?, because you see it seems to me expecting to set oneself as an authority through anecdotal evidence without baselines is exactly what you are doing.
Again , what is the effect of a price floor and is the minimumwage a price floor or not? Direct questions answer them or don't ,or just keep throwing dust in the air and attempting to obfuscate what doesn't satisfy you emtionally.

[Eternal Ramnation]

AND yes the US economy is doing quite a lot better but if the unions get as much sway here as they have there the results will be very similar. They accept 10% as a normal level of unemployment there, we think 9% is horrid and change leaders over it.
BTW they passed a 1-2 percent SYMBOLIC minimum wage increase there to appease the unions even though it will only retard a reduction in that 10.2% unemployment rate.

Ya know instead of just makin' shit up you,being the self professed econ expert should have knowledge that proves just the opposite. Track income and unemployment from when Grand Pa Homeless started his war on unions to now that unions are on life support. As far as minimum wage goes you still have offered no data. I was able to experience the bountiful economy of "free market" labor unencumbered by minimum wages or unions in South East Asia this Spring and I can tell you ,you are categorically full of shit.

Well I have no clue who "Grandpa Homeless" is nor what the fuck his war on unions entailed.
As far as your trip to S E Asia, you had WHAT exactly to compare it to presently versus when?, because you see it seems to me expecting to set oneself as an authority through anecdotal evidence without baselines is exactly what you are doing.
Again , what is the effect of a price floor and is the minimumwage a price floor or not? Direct questions answer them or don't ,or just keep throwing dust in the air and attempting to obfuscate what doesn't satisfy you emtionally.

Ronald Reagan creator of the homeless class.The air traffic controller's strike France and the USA. I don't care if you call it a price floor . You've already stated it's effect is suppression of "brown people" I am asking for data facts figures any shred of evidence that supports your claim. Your routine answer is the use of the words obfuscate and emotion

[Thordaddy]

AND yes the US economy is doing quite a lot better but if the unions get as much sway here as they have there the results will be very similar. They accept 10% as a normal level of unemployment there, we think 9% is horrid and change leaders over it.
BTW they passed a 1-2 percent SYMBOLIC minimum wage increase there to appease the unions even though it will only retard a reduction in that 10.2% unemployment rate.

Ya know instead of just makin' shit up you,being the self professed econ expert should have knowledge that proves just the opposite. Track income and unemployment from when Grand Pa Homeless started his war on unions to now that unions are on life support. As far as minimum wage goes you still have offered no data. I was able to experience the bountiful economy of "free market" labor unencumbered by minimum wages or unions in South East Asia this Spring and I can tell you ,you are categorically full of shit.

Well I have no clue who "Grandpa Homeless" is nor what the fuck his war on unions entailed.
As far as your trip to S E Asia, you had WHAT exactly to compare it to presently versus when?, because you see it seems to me expecting to set oneself as an authority through anecdotal evidence without baselines is exactly what you are doing.
Again , what is the effect of a price floor and is the minimumwage a price floor or not? Direct questions answer them or don't ,or just keep throwing dust in the air and attempting to obfuscate what doesn't satisfy you emtionally.

Ronald Reagan creator of the homeless class.The air traffic controller's strike France and the USA. I don't care if you call it a price floor . You've already stated it's effect is suppression of "brown people" I am asking for data facts figures any shred of evidence that supports your claim. Your routine answer is the use of the words obfuscate and emotion

Well as far as Reagan conducting a "war on unions" I think that's some more unsubstantiated bullshit rhetoric, he remains the only union president to ever be elected President OF the US.
Just because he fired a group of out of control union members and recognized WHEN the balance had gone beyond the point of benefit and become abusive and exploitative of the nation at large doesn't mean he deserves your name calling childishness, and BTW , Reagan was just a boy himself when the term HOBO was coined,that being a shortening of homeless boy ,there has been a "homeless class" in this country ALL along and for you to charge that he somehow created it,when that minimum wage does so much to do just that is complete intellectual dishonesty.

So you want some figures? Ok
Charge : IF there were no minimum wage wages would be driven to little or nothing .
Fact: In America 85% of all employed people are paid above minimum wage ,IOW there is a LEGAL level 85% of employers COULD drive wages down to but it doesn't happen,suggesting quite loudly that there is indeed a force much greater than the minimum wage that drives labor prices,it's called "the market" .
Further fact :ONCE a level of production rendered BY a task can no longer justify paying the minimum wage to have it performed the wage for it becomes....................zero, because the job ceases to exist OR is performed by a willing co conspirator.
NOW that leads to the way the minimum wage encourages black markets and illegal immigration and the dishonesty of the government in publishing .
The cost to the employer IS the wage ,when someone is paid the minimum the cost to the employer is OVER $10/hr that is the REAL amount the employer pays and therefore the persons wage so over $2.75 per hour in mandated unemployment tax, FICA and workman's comp insurance is deducted FOR the government before the employee is TOLD what he is having deducted,over 1/4 of his actual earnings are TAKEN in surreptitious manner without notification and without crediting the employer for paying that much SO,it becomes financially advantageous for an employer to ACTUALLY PAY an illegal worker let us say $9/hr in undocumented remuneration AND the worker is happy to accept what amounts to 1 1/2 the amount of "take home" since the disclosed "take home" for a worker AT minimum wage shrinks to less than $6/hr after the disclosed deductions are taken out.
Now once you throw in a sales tax of 8% in total a little excise tax some gas tax and OVER half what John Q. Minimum wage guy has produced has been confiscated BY government BEFORE he has take ONE bite of an apple or a sip of a soda he can buy with his earnings.
Seems to me the government is who is impoverishing that hypothetical worker not his employer,50% of his produce GONE before he touches the benefit of it.
Those are facts and figures you are FREE to refute, but ya know I started talking to someone else in this thread about freedom government and guns and in typical liberal fashion you have thrown as much mud as you can ,name called,and taken the discussion off to the usual union hall chaos that is your tool of choice.
As far as me being an expert ineconomics, I don't profess that,just that I know more than you and that I read and report the findings OF experts in a form that aught to be understandable by dullards like you if you clear your head of the bigotry toward employers fomented by your mind contolling icons at the podium in your union hall.
Again OVER half of what the min wage guy produces GONE before he gets to use any, his boss is not who is exploiting him.

[Eternal Ramnation]

More of the same old bullshit from you. 85% are paid above minimum wage (if that figure is correct you give no source but I don't care for the sake of argument lets say it is) That is what it means 85% are paid over minimum. It does not mean minimum wage costs jobs suppresses"brown people" encourages black market economies or any other bullshit you spew. Surely if any valid data existed an econ expert could have found it by now. The only data on minimum wage I've seen suggests a slight positive effect on the economy and a Harvard Econ Prof agrees with me. And yes you do profess that . My first thread arguing with you you claimed econ was your "wheelhouse" and told me all about your fancy edjumacashun papers.There might still be a union hall out there somewhere but I myself have never been to one. Anyways your losing tantrum approaches . I know this cause you start using foment bigotry and dullards

[Thordaddy]

More of the same old bullshit from you. 85% are paid above minimum wage (if that figure is correct you give no source but I don't care for the sake of argument lets say it is) That is what it means 85% are paid over minimum. It does not mean minimum wage costs jobs suppresses"brown people" encourages black market economies or any other bullshit you spew. Surely if any valid data existed an econ expert could have found it by now. The only data on minimum wage I've seen suggests a slight positive effect on the economy and a Harvard Econ Prof agrees with me. And yes you do profess that . My first thread arguing with you you claimed econ was your "wheelhouse" and told me all about your fancy edjumacashun papers.There might still be a union hall out there somewhere but I myself have never been to one. Anyways your losing tantrum approaches . I know this cause you start using foment bigotry and dullards

Yes I have a degree in Econ. but do not hold myself out as an expert, that's a bullshit classification you throw out to derail the discussion.Let's just say this, I am far greater authority on the subject than you and IF you want to refute my contentions ,please demonstrate your EXPERT status or STFU about the expert BS. On the subject of the minimum wage I have had direct in person conversations with Walter Williams, chair of the Econ Dept of George Mason University who I have posted articles BY for you to read, and you appear to have been too lazy to do so. I have also had a two hour discussion about it with Paul Samuelson who I sat next to on an airplane trip from Denver to St.L.
I've posted links to Jim Cox's pamphlet on the subject, he being another economist,again you are too lazy to read it so if you wish to remain ignorant you will,I could post an encyclopedia full of info, but you would refuse to learn.
It is a price floor and it does cause the same phenomenon as other price floors, predictably so, but the analysis gets clouded by people like you who can't accept that nor even read about the unintended consequences of their seemingly noble intentions.