Syria's WMD's

[Eternal Ramnation]

No

And HOW would YOU know ?

it was worthless goo for a decade before .

SO, since you say IF he did, you admit you don't know he didn't, nor really what shape they were in .

it was worthless goo for a decade before .

Ya see dipshit, Bush invaded largely to keep what was found out of the hands of terrorists.

it was worthless goo for a decade before .

As I said ,you can believe whatever you decide to and there is ample evidence for EITHER POV

Not an opinion or POV just a fact it was worthless goo for a decade before .

[Thordaddy]

No

And HOW would YOU know ?

it was worthless goo for a decade before .

SO, since you say IF he did, you admit you don't know he didn't, nor really what shape they were in .

it was worthless goo for a decade before .

Ya see dipshit, Bush invaded largely to keep what was found out of the hands of terrorists.

it was worthless goo for a decade before .

As I said ,you can believe whatever you decide to and there is ample evidence for EITHER POV

Not an opinion or POV just a fact it was worthless goo for a decade before .

But it was proof he HAD it.
As you said the last "known" to be produced ,the found stuff only proves he had it and wanted to produce more,the lack of unfettered access to suspected production sights was the issue,sure if he shipped ,it wasn't the worthless shit.
By now what he would have shipped would be useless or marginally,but the production equipment would not.
But ya know I really only came back to this thread to tell you that I find discussion with you pointless since you'r an uncivil twit from the get go,so keep lapping up the chum.

[Eternal Ramnation]

No

And HOW would YOU know ?

it was worthless goo for a decade before .

SO, since you say IF he did, you admit you don't know he didn't, nor really what shape they were in .

it was worthless goo for a decade before .

Ya see dipshit, Bush invaded largely to keep what was found out of the hands of terrorists.

it was worthless goo for a decade before .

As I said ,you can believe whatever you decide to and there is ample evidence for EITHER POV

Not an opinion or POV just a fact it was worthless goo for a decade before .

But it was proof he HAD it.
As you said the last "known" to be produced ,the found stuff only proves he had it and wanted to produce more,the lack of unfettered access to suspected production sights was the issue,sure if he shipped ,it wasn't the worthless shit.
By now what he would have shipped would be useless or marginally,but the production equipment would not.
But ya know I really only came back to this thread to tell you that I find discussion with you pointless since you'r an uncivil twit from the get go,so keep lapping up the chum.

My guess is you got nowhere else to go. That he had them was never in doubt Reagan /Bush your hero's funneled millions of dollars to him for supplies and training and the CIA did targeting for Iraqi chemical attacks. The mustard shells were fired through Pre-WWII weaponry bought from Germany with US dollars. Of course it didn't bother you then but now your ready to send kids to Syria looking for the same worthless goo rather than do a little honest research

[Eternal Ramnation]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Shakinghands_high.OGG


United States support for Iraq during the Iran–Iraq War, against post-revolutionary Iran, included several billion dollars worth of economic aid, the sale of dual-use technology, non-U.S. origin weaponry, military intelligence, Special Operations training, and direct involvement in warfare against Iran.[2][3]
Support from the U.S. for Iraq was not a secret and was frequently discussed in open session of the Senate and House of Representatives. On June 9, 1992, Ted Koppel reported on ABC's Nightline, "It is becoming increasingly clear that George Bush, operating largely behind the scenes throughout the 1980s, initiated and supported much of the financing, intelligence, and military help that built Saddam's Iraq into the power it became",[4] and "Reagan/Bush administrations permitted—and frequently encouraged—the flow of money, agricultural credits, dual-use technology, chemicals, and weapons to Iraq."[5]
Contents [hide]
1 U.S. reaction to the conflict
2 Support
2.1 Military training
2.2 Foreign Materiel Acquisition and Bear Spares
2.3 Chemical and biological exports
2.4 Diplomatic support
3 Parties involved
3.1 Sarkis Soghanalian
3.2 Banca Nazionale del Lavoro
3.3 Index of American companies
4 Energy development and security
4.1 Aqaba pipeline project
4.2 Tanker War and U.S. military involvement
4.2.1 The USS Stark incident
4.2.2 The USS Vincennes incident
4.3 Longer term interests
5 Books
6 See also
7 References
8 External links
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta ... 93Iraq_war

[zn]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Shakinghands_high.OGG

1 U.S. reaction to the conflict
2 Support
2.1 Military training
2.2 Foreign Materiel Acquisition and Bear Spares
2.3 Chemical and biological exports
2.4 Diplomatic support
3 Parties involved
3.1 Sarkis Soghanalian
3.2 Banca Nazionale del Lavoro
3.3 Index of American companies
4 Energy development and security
4.1 Aqaba pipeline project
4.2 Tanker War and U.S. military involvement
4.2.1 The USS Stark incident
4.2.2 The USS Vincennes incident
4.3 Longer term interests
5 Books
6 See also
7 References
8 External links
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta ... 93Iraq_war

Chemical and biological exports

Iraq purchased 8 strains of anthrax from the United States in 1985, according to British biological weapons expert David Kelly. The Iraqi military settled on the American Type Culture Collection strain 14578 as the exclusive strain for use as a biological weapon, according to Charles Duelfer.

On February 9th, 1994, Senator Riegle delivered a report --commonly known at the Riegle Report-- in which it was stated that "pathogenic (meaning 'disease producing'), toxigenic (meaning 'poisonous'), and other biological research materials were exported to Iraq pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department of Commerce." It added: "These exported biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction."

The report then detailed 70 shipments (including Bacillus anthracis) from the United States to Iraqi government agencies over three years, concluding "It was later learned that these microorganisms exported by the United States were identical to those the UN inspectors found and recovered from the Iraqi biological warfare program."

Donald Riegle, Chairman of the Senate committee that authored the aforementioned Riegle Report, said:

U.N. inspectors had identified many United States manufactured items that had been exported from the United States to Iraq under licenses issued by the Department of Commerce, and [established] that these items were used to further Iraq's chemical and nuclear weapons development and its missile delivery system development programs. ... The executive branch of our government approved 771 different export licenses for sale of dual-use technology to Iraq. I think that is a devastating record.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control sent Iraq 14 separate agents "with biological warfare significance," according to Riegle's investigators.

[Thordaddy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Shakinghands_high.OGG

1 U.S. reaction to the conflict
2 Support
2.1 Military training
2.2 Foreign Materiel Acquisition and Bear Spares
2.3 Chemical and biological exports
2.4 Diplomatic support
3 Parties involved
3.1 Sarkis Soghanalian
3.2 Banca Nazionale del Lavoro
3.3 Index of American companies
4 Energy development and security
4.1 Aqaba pipeline project
4.2 Tanker War and U.S. military involvement
4.2.1 The USS Stark incident
4.2.2 The USS Vincennes incident
4.3 Longer term interests
5 Books
6 See also
7 References
8 External links
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta ... 93Iraq_war

Chemical and biological exports

Iraq purchased 8 strains of anthrax from the United States in 1985, according to British biological weapons expert David Kelly. The Iraqi military settled on the American Type Culture Collection strain 14578 as the exclusive strain for use as a biological weapon, according to Charles Duelfer.

On February 9th, 1994, Senator Riegle delivered a report --commonly known at the Riegle Report-- in which it was stated that "pathogenic (meaning 'disease producing'), toxigenic (meaning 'poisonous'), and other biological research materials were exported to Iraq pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department of Commerce." It added: "These exported biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction."

The report then detailed 70 shipments (including Bacillus anthracis) from the United States to Iraqi government agencies over three years, concluding "It was later learned that these microorganisms exported by the United States were identical to those the UN inspectors found and recovered from the Iraqi biological warfare program."

Donald Riegle, Chairman of the Senate committee that authored the aforementioned Riegle Report, said:

U.N. inspectors had identified many United States manufactured items that had been exported from the United States to Iraq under licenses issued by the Department of Commerce, and [established] that these items were used to further Iraq's chemical and nuclear weapons development and its missile delivery system development programs. ... The executive branch of our government approved 771 different export licenses for sale of dual-use technology to Iraq. I think that is a devastating record.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control sent Iraq 14 separate agents "with biological warfare significance," according to Riegle's investigators.

So I suppose if Obama makes the same sort of mistake and Romney beats him in the election ,we need to stick by the fuck up,and even worse to disregard any context in labeling it as such.

Blame America ALL you like Zinc,in the process you justify Bush's actions.

What the report establishes is that we played dirty to win a dirty game.

[Eternal Ramnation]

Bush's actions are unjustifiable . The spin is that it was an intelligence failure . The truth is the CIA wouldn't go along with the big lie and lost so many people because of it that they formed a whole new agency to doctor evidence to sell people on the need for war. The office of "Special Plans".The main selling point was not chemical/bio weapons but "a mushroom cloud". A nuclear threat they knew to be false way before .

[zn]

Bush's actions are unjustifiable . The spin is that it was an intelligence failure . The truth is the CIA wouldn't go along with the big lie and lost so many people because of it that they formed a whole new agency to doctor evidence to sell people on the need for war. The office of "Special Plans".The main selling point was not chemical/bio weapons but "a mushroom cloud". A nuclear threat they knew to be false way before .

You know, at the time, in the run up to the war, when this was being discussed, it was out there that the 'WMD" thing was just a big empty hoax. Partly perpetrated, it's true, by people who believed it.

But also at the time an IMPRESSIVE number of intelligence people came forward to say in the press that the administration's case was completely bogus.

It was people from all over. Yes, the CIA, as you say (though their director towed the Bush line)...but there were also people from military intel, state dept. intel, and so on who openly said the administration had no real case.

I have never heard of that before.

In a run-up to war, large numbers of intel people breaking ranks and saying "this is all nonsense"?

Unheard of.

Those who wanted to know then, knew then.

[Thordaddy]

Bush's actions are unjustifiable . The spin is that it was an intelligence failure . The truth is the CIA wouldn't go along with the big lie and lost so many people because of it that they formed a whole new agency to doctor evidence to sell people on the need for war. The office of "Special Plans".The main selling point was not chemical/bio weapons but "a mushroom cloud". A nuclear threat they knew to be false way before .

You know, at the time, in the run up to the war, when this was being discussed, it was out there that the 'WMD" thing was just a big empty hoax. Partly perpetrated, it's true, by people who believed it.

But also at the time an IMPRESSIVE number of intelligence people came forward to say in the press that the administration's case was completely bogus.

It was people from all over. Yes, the CIA, as you say (though their director towed the Bush line)...but there were also people from military intel, state dept. intel, and so on who openly said the administration had no real case.

I have never heard of that before.

In a run-up to war, large numbers of intel people breaking ranks and saying "this is all nonsense"?

Unheard of.

Those who wanted to know then, knew then.

Wanted being the operative word, clearly there was a difference of opinion and a significant amout of yellow cake was there,so take your side as to who was lieing,but you ONLY believe what satisfies your original assumptions ,such as ,you can trust Nancy Pelosi , Diane Feistein,or Harry Reid,or Joe Biden
Did THEY KNOW? did THEY VOTE for the resolution?
How much "KNOWLEDGE " were the entire congress responsible for?
If that war was a mistake, Bush shoulders no more blame than those he asked permission from, and in fact the whole Dem. plan was to back it and then protest it for political gain,so lapp up the chum.

[Eternal Ramnation]

Bush's actions are unjustifiable . The spin is that it was an intelligence failure . The truth is the CIA wouldn't go along with the big lie and lost so many people because of it that they formed a whole new agency to doctor evidence to sell people on the need for war. The office of "Special Plans".The main selling point was not chemical/bio weapons but "a mushroom cloud". A nuclear threat they knew to be false way before .

You know, at the time, in the run up to the war, when this was being discussed, it was out there that the 'WMD" thing was just a big empty hoax. Partly perpetrated, it's true, by people who believed it.

But also at the time an IMPRESSIVE number of intelligence people came forward to say in the press that the administration's case was completely bogus.

It was people from all over. Yes, the CIA, as you say (though their director towed the Bush line)...but there were also people from military intel, state dept. intel, and so on who openly said the administration had no real case.

I have never heard of that before.

In a run-up to war, large numbers of intel people breaking ranks and saying "this is all nonsense"?

Unheard of.

Those who wanted to know then, knew then.

Wanted being the operative word, clearly there was a difference of opinion and a significant amout of yellow cake was there,so take your side as to who was lieing,but you ONLY believe what satisfies your original assumptions ,such as ,you can trust Nancy Pelosi , Diane Feistein,or Harry Reid,or Joe Biden
Did THEY KNOW? did THEY VOTE for the resolution?
How much "KNOWLEDGE " were the entire congress responsible for?
If that war was a mistake, Bush shoulders no more blame than those he asked permission from, and in fact the whole Dem. plan was to back it and then protest it for political gain,so lapp up the chum.

TD your political posts are like a terrible TV show that's being rerun over and over. The yellow cake claim is bs you can see for yourself here http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/yellowcake.asp Maybe I can get snopes to see if I really am a Dem as you keep trying to imply. Like I've said too many times before your politics are way closer to anyone listed than mine are.

[zn]

TD your political posts are like a terrible TV show that's being rerun over and over. The yellow cake claim is bs you can see for yourself here http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/yellowcake.asp Maybe I can get snopes to see if I really am a Dem as you keep trying to imply. Like I've said too many times before your politics are way closer to anyone listed than mine are.

Jesus H.

Someone still believes the niger yellowcake fable?

PRESIDENT BUSH'S OWN COMMISSION ON INTEL FAILURES BLEW THAT ONE UP.

Though it had been blown up long before that. Still. The president activates his own commission, it reports directly to him, he signs off on the report, that report includes a deep and complete flushing of the entire niger story...and someone STILL walks around declaring the tooth fairy is real?

Heck the rest of us put that one to rest years and years ago.

[Eternal Ramnation]

TD your political posts are like a terrible TV show that's being rerun over and over. The yellow cake claim is bs you can see for yourself here http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/yellowcake.asp Maybe I can get snopes to see if I really am a Dem as you keep trying to imply. Like I've said too many times before your politics are way closer to anyone listed than mine are.

Jesus H.

Someone still believes the niger yellowcake fable?

PRESIDENT BUSH'S OWN COMMISSION ON INTEL FAILURES BLEW THAT ONE UP.

Though it had been blown up long before that. Still. The president activates his own commission, it reports directly to him, he signs off on the report, that report includes a deep and complete flushing of the entire niger story...and someone STILL walks around declaring the tooth fairy is real?

Heck the rest of us put that one to rest years and years ago.

The Right wingers have resurrected it yet again and packaged it as new finds(See TDs cut and paste.) The Israelis destroyed that site in 19 freakin 81 while I was still in . Imagine yellowcake being found at a nuclear reactor project .

[zn]

jesus H.

Someone still believes the niger yellowcake fable?

PRESIDENT BUSH'S OWN COMMISSION ON INTEL FAILURES BLEW THAT ONE UP.

Though it had been blown up long before that. Still. The president activates his own commission, it reports directly to him, he signs off on the report, that report includes a deep and complete flushing of the entire niger story...and someone STILL walks around declaring the tooth fairy is real?

Heck the rest of us put that one to rest years and years ago.

The Right wingers have resurrected it yet again and packaged it as new finds(See TDs cut and paste.) The Israelis destroyed that site in 19 freakin 81 while I was still in . Imagine yellowcake being found at a nuclear reactor project .

Ah yeah. The bot thing. "Repeat the talking points." Only read a narrow range of views. When told that they then lash out furiously with an attempted "turn the tables" move and claim their opponents do that too...even though it's self-evidently not true.

[Thordaddy]

TD your political posts are like a terrible TV show that's being rerun over and over. The yellow cake claim is bs you can see for yourself here http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/yellowcake.asp Maybe I can get snopes to see if I really am a Dem as you keep trying to imply. Like I've said too many times before your politics are way closer to anyone listed than mine are.

Jesus H.

Someone still believes the niger yellowcake fable?

PRESIDENT BUSH'S OWN COMMISSION ON INTEL FAILURES BLEW THAT ONE UP.

Though it had been blown up long before that. Still. The president activates his own commission, it reports directly to him, he signs off on the report, that report includes a deep and complete flushing of the entire niger story...and someone STILL walks around declaring the tooth fairy is real?

Heck the rest of us put that one to rest years and years ago.

The Right wingers have resurrected it yet again and packaged it as new finds(See TDs cut and paste.) The Israelis destroyed that site in 19 freakin 81 while I was still in . Imagine yellowcake being found at a nuclear reactor project .

Yellow cake he was doubtless going to allow to be transported out of his country once the sanctions expired. I doubt it.

See we have a true conflict of not just facts here but visions as well.

I have over the years caught a few employees stealing from me and have myself acquired a few speeding tickets as well,I don't get caught every time ,in fact I don't get caught MOST of the time, I have always assumed that when I catch someone stealing I'm not fortunate enough to catch them the first time.
I'm ALWAYS willing to accept new information ,I read the Snopes article years ago, but forgive me if I don't accept the conclusions they put forth as being ALL there was to know. The two of you take the same arrogant stance of omniscience, not at all uncommon for either of you.

I suppose the origins of this thread ,ALL the facts won't ever be known, the enormity of crime around the world is evidence to me far more occurs than is detected in virtually every nefarious endeavor,you just can't allow any freedom and stop it all, hell it occurs in prison.

ALL the examples were proof of a few things, Saddam wanted,had produced and intended to produce more WMD devices. The cost was steep, I am however comfortable in the belief that today 10 plus year after sanctions against Saddam were lifted and the revenue of his oil fields put at the disposal of his known intent we would be dealing with three middle eastern regimes with WMD's ,possibly more since Ghadaffi rolled over when we invaded Saddams nest. With WMD's at his regimes disposal who knows how fast the Arab spring would have faded into winter

You see it's the certainty that I don't know everything that drives my opinion versus the certainty that you do that drives yours.

I am but a humble message board guy,who knows that you are too, I get into a lot of scrapes with your type, those who treat others with disdain and attempt to dismiss them as stupid for accepting different views of facts,I would call your attention to ZN's last post in this thread, NOT a single thing contained in it that was ANYTHING BUT a personal attack.

Jesus it must be hard living a life where you fear being wrong that badly.

Saddam is gone we still have some presence in the area, Syria is a known problem ,maybe further troop draw down is a mistake , I would submit that if George Bush was still Pres. the Syrian regime would be FAR LESS defiant ,they are sure we won't act beyond the gangster type assassinations practiced by our current Chi. based Pres. OBTW twasn't me who first compared "THE ONE" to a gangster,it was Ole SLick Willy .

BTW kinda funny you brought up the CIA acronym I use it a lot for me it can stand for the traditional Central Intelligence Agency OR Contemporary Intellectual Arrogance something you both have terminal cases of, it's common in liberals

[Eternal Ramnation]

Part of the yellow cake lie was that Saddam had developed a centrifuge (what you need to weaponize yellow cake) for a dirty bomb. On it's own yellow cake is a health hazard but not much of a weapon. The sites were well know to inspectors and thus Bush. To say he invaded to secure the yellow cake that his dad's actions created is nonsense. To predict what Saddam would do with sanctions lifted is more nonsense and not a valid argument