Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Rams Huddle › Weiss and Cowherd on the Wentz injury
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InvaderRam.
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December 12, 2017 at 6:16 pm #78833
znModeratorRockRam wrote:
Colin Cowherd and Charlie Weis say running QBs are a liability
Cowherd had Weis on today. They noted how running QBs often never make it to post season because they get injured.
Weis said he specifically did not want a running QB. However, the one exception would be Wilson who knows how to avoid big hits.
Said the entire problem with guys like Wentz and Luck is that they WILL be hurt their entire careers because running is a part of their game . And if they would only learn how to slide instead of fighting for extra yards and going head first, perhaps it could be a different story. But in the end, these kinds of guys won’t do it consistently because they’ve made use of their athleticism all their lives. So…..they eventually start getting hurt……usually at the worst possible time….. It just won’t work long term in the NFL.
So it is not that the running QB can’t pass well or win games or even win the Superbowl. It’s that his proclivity for injury rises enormously over time, and his NFL lifespan is going to be cut short.
That was Weiss and Cowherd, and now my reaction:
The QBs who have long careers and multiple play off and even SB appearances are drop back passers. They survive. They hone their passing craft. But for the running QBs, they simply act on instinct.
The arm talent is super evident with Wentz and Luck. Both are terrific football players. But Luck is hurt more than he plays. And Wentz in only his second year has an ACL……and it happened (surprise)….running the ball. Cam Newton has been injured more and more. But…..when he stops running it so changes his game that his passing performance drops off significantly. He has a good arm so there’s no reason he can’t operate in the pocket, except he’s just not wired that way. It affects his entire psyche when he can’t run. He stands and shows off before the crowd NOT when he’s made a great pass, but when he’s made a great run. Cam isn’t Cam if he doesn’t run.
The Eagles chances for advancing in the playoffs are very slim with Wentz out. Superbowl? Nearly impossible.
The odds are far higher for a guy like Goff to play more games over the years than Wentz, and therefore have more opportunities to get into the playoffs. And, to have a far longer career if he wants it. Tom Brady wouldn’t be playing elite ball at 40 if he had been a running QB.
December 12, 2017 at 6:52 pm #78842InvaderRamModeratorwatching the both of them play the other day. carson comes across as an athletic marvel. a gun slinging athletic marvel. and it’s entertaining for sure.
goff physically. athletically. can’t compare. he’s slow footed. he can’t throw it on a rope. but he’s like a surgeon. deliberate. precise with his movements. his movements in the pocket are subtle. and as he gains more experience he should be able to hone his skills.
i preferred wentz over goff before the draft but with his age and potential. he could quickly become my favorite rams qb of all time.
December 12, 2017 at 8:06 pm #78845
wvParticipantI like QBs who can run. Give me a Steve Young, or a Roger Staubach any day.
And if Flutie and Tarkenton had been taller, they’d probably have gotten rings.
I think the big key is — can the guy throw accurately? Young could. Staubach could. But some of these running-QBs never did have the accuracy. Michael Vick. Randall Cunningham. Cam Newton. I dont think they could make all the throws. Especially the ‘touch throws.
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vDecember 12, 2017 at 8:27 pm #78850
joemadParticipantMobile QBs are great and like you said especially if they’re accurate passers. I think R Wilson and Rodgers are the best QBs in the league because they do it so well…
But both Staubach and Young’s careers ended because of too many concussions….
December 12, 2017 at 8:41 pm #78852InvaderRamModeratori do like rodgers and wilson. and i think mariota could be great still.
but i like goff a lot. and if he progresses like i think he can. he will be my favorite rams qb ever.
December 12, 2017 at 9:07 pm #78853wvParticipantList of all the Super Bowl QBs. Plenty of pocket passers. Plenty of QBs who could run.
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1/15/67Bart Starr, Green Bay Packers, Alabama, age 33.
Len Dawson, Kansas City Chiefs, Purdue, 31.II – 1/14/68
Bart Starr, 34.
Daryle Lamonica, Oakland Raiders, Notre Dame, 26.III – 1/12/69
Joe Namath, New York Jets, Alabama, 25.
Earl Morrall, Baltimore Colts, Michigan State, 34.IV – 1/11/70
Len Dawson, Kansas City Chiefs, Purdue, 34.
Joe Kapp, Minnesota Vikings, California, 31.V – 1/17/71
Johnny Unitas, Baltimore Colts, Louisville, 37.
Craig Morton, Dallas Cowboys, California, 27.VI – 1/16/72
Roger Staubach, Dallas Cowboys, Navy, 29.
Bob Griese, Miami Dolphins, Purdue, 26.VII – 1/14/73
Bob Griese, 27.
Bill Kilmer, Washington Redskins, UCLA, 33.VIII – 1/13/74
Bob Griese, 28.
Fran Tarkenton, Minnesota Vikings, Georgia, 33.IX – 1/12/75
Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers, Louisiana Tech, 26.
Fran Tarkenton, Minnesota Vikings – Georgia, 34.X – 1/18/76
Terry Bradshaw, 27.
Roger Staubach, 33.XI – 1/9/77
Ken Stabler, Oakland Raiders, Alabama, 31.
Fran Tarkenton, Minnesota Vikings, Georgia, 36.XII – 1/15/78
Roger Staubach, 35.
Craig Morton, Denver Broncos, California, 34.XIII – 1/21/79
Terry Bradshaw, 30.
Roger Staubach, 36.XIV – 1/20/80
Terry Bradshaw, 31.
Vince Ferragamo, Los Angeles Rams, California, Nebraska, 25.XV – 1/25/81
Jim Plunkett, Oakland Raiders, Stanford, 33.
Ron Jaworski, Philadelphia Eagles, Youngstown State, 29.XVI – 1/24/82
Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers, Notre Dame, 25.
Ken Anderson, Cincinnati Bengals, Augustana, 32.
XVII – 1/30/83
Joe Theismann, Washington Redskins, Notre Dame, 33.
David Woodley, Miami Dolphins, Louisiana State, 24.XVIII – 1/22/84
Jim Plunkett, Los Angeles Raiders, Stanford, 36.
Joe Theismann, 34.XIX – 1/20/85
Joe Montana, 28.
Dan Marino, Miami Dolphins, Pittsburgh, 23.XX – 1/26/86
Jim McMahon, Chicago Bears, BYU, 26.
Tony Eason, New England Patriots, Illinois, 26.XXI – 1/25/87
Phil Simms, New York Giants, Morehead State, 32.
John Elway, Denver Broncos, Stanford, 26.XXII – 1/31/88
Doug Williams, Washington Redskins – Grambling, 32
John Elway, 27.XXIII – 1/22/89
Joe Montana, 32.
Boomer Esiason, Cincinnati Bengals, Maryland, 27.XXIV – 1/28/90
Joe Montana, 33.
John Elway, Denver Broncos, Stanford, 29.XXV – 1/27/91
Jeff Hostetler, New York Giants, West Virginia, 29.
Jim Kelly, Buffalo Bills, Miami, 30.XXVI – 1/26/92
Mark Rypien, Washington Redskins, Washington State, 30.
Jim Kelly, 31.XXVII – 1/31/93
Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys, Oklahoma, UCLA, 26.
Jim Kelly, 32.XXVIII – 1/30/94
Troy Aikman, 27.
Jim Kelly, 33.XXIX – 1/29/95
Steve Young, San Francisco 49ers, BYU, 33.
Stan Humphries, San Diego Chargers, NE Louisiana, 29.XXX – 1/28/96
Troy Aikman, 29.
Neil O’Donnell, Pittsburgh Steelers, Maryland, 29.XXXI – 1/26/97
Brett Favre, Green Bay Packers – Southern Mississippi, 27.
Drew Bledsoe, New England Patriots, Washington State, 24.XXXII – 1/25/98
John Elway, 37.
Brett Favre, 28.XXXIII – 1/31/99
John Elway, 38.
Chris Chandler, Atlanta Falcons, Washington, 33.XXXIV – 1/30/00
Kurt Warner, St. Louis Rams, Northern Iowa, 28
Steve McNair, Tennessee Titans, Alcorn State, 26XXXV – 1/28/01
Trent Dilfer, Baltimore Ravens, Fresno State, 28
Kerry Collins, New York Giants, Penn State, 28XXXVI – 2/3/02
Tom Brady, New England Patriots, Michigan, 24
Kurt Warner, 30XXXVII – 1/26/03
Brad Johnson, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Florida State, 34
Rich Gannon, Oakland Raiders, Delaware, 37XXXVIII – 2/1/04
Tom Brady, 26
Jake Delhomme, Carolina Panthers, Louisiana-Lafayette, 29XXXVIX – 2/6/05
Tom Brady, 27
Donovan McNabb, Philadelphia, Syracuse, 28XL – 2/5/06
Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers, Miami (Ohio), 23
Matt Hasselbeck, Seattle Seahawks, Boston College, 30XLI – 2/4/07
Peyton Manning, Indianapolis Colts, Tennessee, 30.
Rex Grossman, Chicago Bears, Florida, 26.XLII – 2/3/08
Eli Manning, New York Giants, Ole Miss, 27
Tom Brady, 30XLIII – 2/1/09
Ben Roethlisberger, 26
Kurt Warner, Arizona Cardinals, 37XLIV – 2/7/10
Drew Brees, New Orleans Saints, 31
Peyton Manning, 33XLV – 2/6/11
Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay, 31
Ben Roethlisberger, 25XLVI – 2/5/2012
Eli Manning, 31.
Tom Brady, 34.
XLVII – 2/3/2013
Joe Flacco, Baltimore Ravens, Delaware, 28
Colin Kaepernick, San Francisco 49ers, Nevada, 25XLVIII – 2/2/2014
Russell Wilson, Seattle Seahawks, Wisconsin, North Carolina State, 25
Peyton Manning, 37XLIX – 2/1/2015
Tom Brady, 37
Russell Wilson, 2650 – 2/7/2016
Peyton Manning, 39
Cam Newton, Carolina Panthers, Auburn, 26LI – 2/5/2017
Tom Brady, 39
Matt Ryan, Atlanta Falcons, Boston College, 31December 12, 2017 at 9:37 pm #78855znModeratorList of all the Super Bowl QBs. Plenty of pocket passers. Plenty of QBs who could run.
Okay fair enough. For example McNair got a lot out of being a runner, as did Young obviously. But, I don;t think the claim is, pocket passers can’t or shouldn’t run. It’s that being a pocket passer is the necessary key skill to master. You do better and last longer if you master that. That was certainly true of Young.
The thing with Wentz was, though, he was to me a reckless runner. But maybe he will learn.
December 12, 2017 at 9:47 pm #78856wvParticipantList of all the Super Bowl QBs. Plenty of pocket passers. Plenty of QBs who could run.
Okay fair enough. For example McNair got a lot out of being a runner, as did Young obviously. But, I don;t think the claim is, pocket passers can’t or shouldn’t run. It’s that being a pocket passer is the necessary key skill to master. You do better and last longer if you master that. That was certainly true of Young.
The thing with Wentz was, though, he was to me a reckless runner. But maybe he will learn.
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“being a pocket passer is the necessary key skill” — Yes, i think thats true.
But i think a pocket-passer who can run, is better than a pocket passer who cant.
So I’d say Elway, Young, Staubach were better than Marino, Warner, Brady.
I think. I dunno.
I also think a running back who can throw from the pocket is better than just a running running-back.
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vDecember 12, 2017 at 10:06 pm #78857znModeratorBut i think a pocket-passer who can run, is better than a pocket passer who cant.
So I’d say Elway, Young, Staubach were better than Marino, Warner, Brady.
I think. I dunno.
Well the principle is easier to agree with in the abstract. I actually think Marino, Brady, and Warner are the 3 best qbs you list there, though of course it’s not like the others wish they could be as good as Jeff Kemp.
I don’t know if that’s a “thing” I have or if it’s completely objectively true. I do like the great pocket passers, to which I would add Fouts and I loved watching Marino and the way the ball would just zing out there to the right place almost every time.
But then guys like Tarkenton and in his own era Wilson? I can’t rule them out. So maybe this discussion is a little academic.
Wentz is good. And he rebounded well from the Seattle game to give the Rams a hard time.
Not that he’s Nick Foles or anything.
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December 12, 2017 at 10:17 pm #78858InvaderRamModeratorSo I’d say Elway, Young, Staubach were better than Marino, Warner, Brady.
not a big fan of young. never saw staubach play.
but i think young was great. and aaron rodgers and russell wilson are great to watch as well.
i would take marino, warner, and brady over elway. but probably not young, aaron rodgers, or russell wilson.
but i would also take brady and belichick over rodgers and wilson and their head coaching counterparts. now steve young and bill walsh??? hmmm… i might still take brady and belichick. that’s tough.
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This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by InvaderRam.
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