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  • #18507
    PA Ram
    Participant

    I’m starting a book review thread for anyone interested.

    I just bought a bunch of ebooks and one paperback so I should be able to post a few here over the next year(I am a VERY slow reader who hops between books quite often).

    So anyway–here’s my first review:

    The Martian by Andy Weir

    http://www.amazon.com/The-Martian-Novel-Andy-Weir-ebook/dp/B00EMXBDMA#

    This is a pretty popular novel right now and a film is being made from it.

    It’s what falls under the category of “hard” sci-fi, i believe.

    The idea is simple enough: a team of astronauts is forced to flee the red planet when a storm hits but one of them is in an accident, presumed dead and abandoned. Only he isn’t dead. He survived. Now what?

    How could someone survive on Mars with just the technology left behind? What would be the obstacles to staying alive before a rescue team could get there?

    Andy Weir has put a lot of thought and technical expertise in to solving that problem. If I were stuck there I would hope he was with me. Engineers love the novel. This is not fantasy stuff–it’s how things would probably go, or at least how problems would be solved.

    My problem with the novel is why it’s so popular with engineers. Large chunks read like a technical book:

    “The total floor space of the Hab is about 92 square meters. I plan to dedicate all of it to this endeavor. I don’t mind walking on the dirt. It’ll be a lot of work, but I’m going to need to cover the entire floor to a depth of 10 centimeters. That means I’ll have to transport 9.2 cubic meters of Martian soil into the Hab. I can get maybe one-tenth of a cubic meter in through the airlock at a time, and it’ll be backbreaking work to collect it.”

    It’s interesting but for me it was like dragging an anchor along with my eyes to read the novel. There’s a lot of this kind of thing and it sort of deflates the excitement of the situation. I think it may make a better film. Some people will really enjoy this and some won’t get through it. I got through it but it was a struggle at times.

    A novel I happened to like much better on this subject was Ben Bova’s “Mars”. Not as technical(although there is some of that) but it seemed to flow better…to move along. It was more exciting.

    Mars by Ben Bova:

    http://www.amazon.com/Mars-Ben-Bova/dp/055356241X/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1424051595&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=mars+ben+bova

    • This topic was modified 9 years, 9 months ago by PA Ram.

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

    #18547
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    I’m reading “Hyperion” by Dan Simmons. I dont read much sci fi, but
    when the local used-book-store was closing down, i asked the owner
    and manager what some of their favorite books were. They all liked
    Hyperion in the sci-fi field. So, i thot I’d read it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkTfOkw9NLc
    —-

    “Seven people are chosen by the Church of Shrike and confirmed by the All Thing for the final pilgrimage to the Time Tombs on the outback world of Hyperion. Typically, those who make this trip do not return. And this time it is believed that the Time Tombs are about to open freeing the Shrike. To complicate matters, the Ousters are on their way to stage a war to take over the planet and the interstellar Hegemony is making plans to both evacuate and protect Hyperion.
    Structured much like the Canterbury Tales,we learn the stories of each of the travelers…”
    http://mostlyfiction.com/scifi/simmons.htm
    ————-

    The book makes a lot of “Best Sci Fi books Lists”
    Number 51 on NPR’s list:
    http://www.npr.org/2011/08/11/139085843/your-picks-top-100-science-fiction-fantasy-books

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    “It occurs to me that our survival may depend upon our talking to one another.”
    ― Dan Simmons, Hyperion

    “The world as we know it is ending, my friends, no matter what happens to us”
    ― Dan Simmons, Hyperion

    #18548
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    ― Dan Simmons, Hyperion

    Background (from wikid pedia)

    In the 28th century, humanity has spread across the galaxy, first aboard “Hawking drive” ships and then through “farcasters”, which permit nearly instantaneous travel between them regardless of the distances. The farcaster network (the “WorldWeb”) is the infrastructural and economical basis of the Hegemony of Man and thus determines the whole culture and society. Also flowing across these portals are the structures of the datasphere (a network reminiscent of the Internet in design, but far more advanced). Inseparable from mankind’s technologies is the powerful, knowledgeable, and utterly inscrutable TechnoCore — the vast agglomeration of millions of AIs who run almost every piece of high technology of mankind. The unthinking hubris of man resulted in the death of the home-world (Earth) – which was consumed by an artificial black hole running out of control – and this arrogant philosophy was carried forth to the stars, for centuries.

    The Hegemony itself is a largely decadent society, relying on its military to incorporate into the WorldWeb the colony planets, even unwillingly, and to defend the Hegemony from attacks by the Ousters, “interstellar barbarians” who dwell free of and beyond the bounds of the Hegemony and shun all the works of the TechnoCore (especially farcasters). The political head of the Hegemony is an executive advised by the TechnoCore advisory council.

    All the ‘Core’s advice and predictions are confounded by the mysterious structures of the so-called Time Tombs and a time traveling aggressor called the Shrike on the remote colony world Hyperion (named after the moon of Saturn). Even worse, the Ousters have long been obsessed with Hyperion, and their invasion there is imminent.

    Into this evolving crisis come seven pilgrims to make the journey to the Time Tombs and the Shrike, that seems to guard the Time Tombs, there to ask one wish of it. The Shrike is the object of a cult, the Church of the Final Atonement. Occasionally the church sends a prime number of pilgrims to the Time Tombs; there is a legend that all but one are slaughtered and the remaining pilgrim gets his request granted. Aboard a treeship the pilgrims finally meet after being revived out of their cryogenic storage state; they decide they each will tell their tale to enliven the long trip to the Tombs and to get to know each other. Simmons uses this device to unfold the panorama of this universe, its history and conflicts. The story opens in medias res.

    #18549
    PA Ram
    Participant

    I’m reading “Hyperion” by Dan Simmons. I dont read much sci fi, but
    when the local used-book-store was closing down, i asked the owner
    and manager what some of their favorite books were. They all liked
    Hyperion in the sci-fi field. So, i thot I’d read it.

    <iframe width=”620″ height=”349″ src=”https://www.youtube.com/embed/kkTfOkw9NLc?feature=oembed&#8221; frameborder=”0″ allowfullscreen=””></iframe>

    —-

    “Seven people are chosen by the Church of Shrike and confirmed by the All Thing for the final pilgrimage to the Time Tombs on the outback world of Hyperion. Typically, those who make this trip do not return. And this time it is believed that the Time Tombs are about to open freeing the Shrike. To complicate matters, the Ousters are on their way to stage a war to take over the planet and the interstellar Hegemony is making plans to both evacuate and protect Hyperion.
    Structured much like the Canterbury Tales,we learn the stories of each of the travelers…”

    http://mostlyfiction.com/scifi/simmons.htm

    ————-

    The book makes a lot of “Best Sci Fi books Lists”
    Number 51 on NPR’s list:

    http://www.npr.org/2011/08/11/139085843/your-picks-top-100-science-fiction-fantasy-books

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    “It occurs to me that our survival may depend upon our talking to one another.”
    ― Dan Simmons, Hyperion

    “The world as we know it is ending, my friends, no matter what happens to us”
    ― Dan Simmons, Hyperion

    Dan Simmons has become one of my favorite authors.

    I haven’t read any of his science fiction novels yet but I have read, “Drood”, “The Terror”, “The Crook Factory”, “Black Hills” and “Song of Kali”. He is a different sort of writer in that you can’t classify him in any one genre. He writes sci-fi, horror, espionage, fantasy, etc.

    I love his novels but I have one complaint: the man doesn’t know when to end. This was especially true for “Drood”(LOVED that novel, and “The Terror”. I hit what should have been the end and the book goes on another hundred pages or so.

    Still, I’d read anything he does because he’s very good.

    I have “Carrion Comfort on my kindle but haven’t gotten to it yet.

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

    #18586
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Well, keep them coming, Pa ;
    I iz a book lover.

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    “It’s a lazy Saturday afternoon, there’s a couple lying naked in bed reading Encyclopedia Britannica to each other, and arguing about whether the Andromeda Galaxy is more ‘numinous’ than the Resurrection. Do they know how to have a good time, or don’t they?”
    ― Carl Sagan

    #18699
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    ======================================
    Reading Statistics
    Total percent of U.S. population that has specific reading disorders 15%
    Total percentage of american adults who can’t understand the labels on their prescriptions 46%
    Total percent of young people who claim they read more than 10 books a year 56%
    Total percentage of U.S. adults who are unable to read an 8th grade level book 50%
    Total amount of words read annually by a person who reads 15 minutes a day 1 million
    Total percent of U.S. high school graduates who will never read a book after high school 33%
    Total percentage of college students who will never read another book after they graduate 42%

    Total percentage of U.S. families who did not buy a book this year 80%
    Total percentage of adults that have not been in a book store in the past 5 years 70%
    Total percentage of books started that aren’t read to completion 57%
    Total percent of U.S. students that are dyslexic 15%
    Total percentage of NASA employees that are dyslexic 50%
    Total number of U.S. inmates that are literate 15%
    http://www.statisticbrain.com/reading-statistics/
    =================

    Twilight Of The Books
    New Yorker
    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/12/24/twilight-of-the-books?currentPage=all
    …..see link…
    ……….There’s no reason to think that reading and writing are about to become extinct, but some sociologists speculate that reading books for pleasure will one day be the province of a special “reading class,” much as it was before the arrival of mass literacy, in the second half of the nineteenth century. They warn that it probably won’t regain the prestige of exclusivity; it may just become “an increasingly arcane hobby.” Such a shift would change the texture of society. If one person decides to watch “The Sopranos” rather than to read Leonardo Sciascia’s novella “To Each His Own,” the culture goes on largely as before—both viewer and reader are entertaining themselves while learning something about the Mafia in the bargain. But if, over time, many people choose television over books, then a nation’s conversation with itself is likely to change. A reader learns about the world and imagines it differently from the way a viewer does; according to some experimental psychologists, a reader and a viewer even think differently. If the eclipse of reading continues, the alteration is likely to matter in ways that aren’t foreseeable.

    Taking the long view, it’s not the neglect of reading that has to be explained but the fact that we read at all. “The act of reading is not natural,” Maryanne Wolf writes in “Proust and the Squid” (Harper; $25.95), an account of the history and biology of reading. Humans started reading far too recently for any of our genes to code for it specifically. We can do it only because the brain’s plasticity enables the repurposing of circuitry that originally evolved for other tasks—distinguishing at a glance a garter snake from a haricot vert, say.

    The squid of Wolf’s title represents the neurobiological approach to the study of reading. Bigger cells are easier for scientists to experiment on, and some species of squid have optic-nerve cells a hundred times as thick as mammal neurons, and up to four inches long, making them a favorite with biologists. (Two decades ago, I had a summer job washing glassware in Cape Cod’s Marine Biological Laboratory. Whenever researchers extracted an optic nerve, they threw the rest of the squid into a freezer, and about once a month we took a cooler-full to the beach for grilling.) To symbolize the humanistic approach to reading, Wolf has chosen Proust, who described reading as “that fruitful miracle of a communication in the midst of solitude.” Perhaps inspired by Proust’s example, Wolf, a dyslexia researcher at Tufts, reminisces about the nuns who taught her to read in a two-room brick schoolhouse in Illinois. But she’s more of a squid person than a Proust person, and seems most at home when dissecting Proust’s fruitful miracle into such brain parts as the occipital “visual association area” and “area 37’s fusiform gyrus.” Given the panic that takes hold of humanists when the decline of reading is discussed, her cold-blooded perspective is opportune.

    Wolf recounts the early history of reading, speculating about developments in brain wiring as she goes. For example, from the eighth to the fifth millennia B.C.E., clay tokens were used in Mesopotamia for tallying livestock and other goods. Wolf suggests that, once the simple markings on the tokens were understood not merely as squiggles but as representations of, say, ten sheep, they would have put more of the brain to work. She draws on recent research with functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI), a technique that maps blood flow in the brain during a given task, to show that meaningful squiggles activate not only the occipital regions responsible for vision but also temporal and parietal regions associated with language and computation. If a particular squiggle was repeated on a number of tokens, a group of nerves might start to specialize in recognizing it, and other nerves to specialize in connecting to language centers that handled its meaning.

    In the fourth millennium B.C.E., the Sumerians developed cuneiform, and the Egyptians hieroglyphs. Both scripts began with pictures of things, such as a beetle or a hand, and then some of these symbols developed more abstract meanings, representing ideas in some cases and sounds in others. Readers had to recognize hundreds of symbols, some of which could stand for either a word or a sound, an ambiguity that probably slowed down decoding. Under this heavy cognitive burden, Wolf imagines, the Sumerian reader’s brain would have behaved the way modern brains do when reading Chinese, which also mixes phonetic and ideographic elements and seems to stimulate brain activity in a pattern distinct from that of people reading the Roman alphabet. Frontal regions associated with muscle memory would probably also have gone to work, because the Sumerians learned their characters by writing them over and over, as the Chinese do today….see link….

    • This reply was modified 9 years, 9 months ago by Avatar photowv.
    • This reply was modified 9 years, 9 months ago by Avatar photowv.
    #18809
    PA Ram
    Participant

    “The Girl on the Train”

    http://www.amazon.com/The-Girl-Train-A-Novel/dp/1594633665#

    This is currently one of the top bestsellers right now in fiction.

    It’s popularity stems from its comparison to “Gone Girl” and while I never read the book, I liked the film so I decided to give “The Girl on the Train” a try.

    The short and sweet review is “It’s no Gone Girl.”

    While the similarities are certainly there: girl goes missing, there is a suspect(in this case a few) and there is a twist, I think this did not have the bite in the twist that “Gone Girl” did. It’s sort of…eh. It was a lot of noise and style for not much payoff at the end. It’s written well and the characters are fine but it has that “point of view” thing going between three main characters and lets the reader draw conclusions from three different perspectives. Oh–there is a conclusion and you know what happened–it’s just not all that stunning or even interesting, really. It could have gone a number of other ways and I would have felt the same way.

    If you want something easy to read you could do worse. It’s not terrible.

    I’m comparing it to a version I liked better so it had an effect on how I felt about it.

    But it’s not bad.

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

    #22331
    PA Ram
    Participant

    Red Notice by Bill Browder

    http://www.amazon.com/Red-Notice-Finance-Murder-Justice-ebook/dp/B00LD1ORX6/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1428509552&sr=1-1&keywords=red+notice

    Bill Browder was a guest on “The Daily Show” which is how I heard about his book “Red Notice”.

    The story seemed interesting then, a hedge fund manager hits gold in Russia buying severely underfunded shares in companies that didn’t even seem to know how much they were worth. Russia didn’t seem to know what they had, and the world didn’t either and the world was a little wary about investing in Russia. Bill Browder was interested in Russia from a young age. His grandfather was the head of the Communist party in the United States.

    He saw Russia as an opportunity.

    He was persistent about it and went to great lengths to secure money for investing. That i itself is a particularly interesting part of the story. I don’t hang around many billionaires or hedge fund managers so the “behind-the-scenes” so to speak, was entertaining–how these guys, pretty cautious, always about themselves first and foremost and not always trustworthy, could pull the rug out at any moment. It’s a high stakes lifestyle, gambling with huge amounts of money.

    But this is how the world works–moving money around from one place to the next–always looking for infinite growth.

    But there are risks. No matter how much money you have.

    Russia, it’s no secret, has a lot of corruption. So does the United States of course, but when the powerful run into a system that basically laughs at the power they “think” they have it can be an entertaining story.

    Russia(to be specific–certain wealthy Russians) essentially stole tax money(over 200 million dollars) that the company paid. So Browder and a Russian attorney and others investigated the theft. Browder was kicked out of Russia and his attorney, Sergi Magnitsky stayed behind to continue the investigation–in the process he found some criminal activity of some powerful people. He was in obvious danger but decided to stay and trust the Russian system of justice. This was a mistake. He was eventually beaten to death in a prison hospital.

    Browder launched a campaign to bar those involved from entering America and other countries. It is called “The Magnitsky Act” and the story of how that eventually passed is another lesson in sausage making politics right here in America. It wasn’t easy, or pretty. And if a guy like Bill Browder had a hard time getting it through how can an average citizen hope to accomplish anything?

    Interpol put out a “Red Notice” on Browder who the Russians were charging with a tax evasion crime. A red notice is sort of an arrest warrant with the extradition that a country will extradite the individual to the country requesting it.

    At the time he was in the Netherlands and had no idea if he’d be able to leave because the notice would pop up at the airport. The other thing is watching other people who had been involved with the investigation dying. He knew about Russia and how they weren’t shy about sending assassins across the globe. And he had personally pissed off Putin as well. It was a difficult situation, one to create plenty of paranoia. Part of writing the book was to get the story out hoping it would offer some protection against something happening.

    In any case, I thought it was a great book that was easy to read, was exciting and interesting and moving. Browder devotes much of the book to his search of justice for Magnitsky.

    If I have any complaints, I would say that he should have devoted a little bit more time to letting the reader know Magnitsky on a more personal level. There’s a bit of an emotional disconnect on a personal level. He describes Magnitsky and his heroics and actions but I’m not sure I ever really felt him as a human being.

    But this book is certainly worth reading. It’s a real-life thriller on one level, an interesting peek at big money investing and a drama in a search for justice.

    I thought it was one of the better books I’ve read in the past couple of years and probably the best non-fiction book I’ve read in several more years.

    I highly recommend it.

    • This reply was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by PA Ram.
    • This reply was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by PA Ram.
    • This reply was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by PA Ram.

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

    #22352
    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator

    I’ve read Hyperion, Drood and The Terror. I loved all three, especially Drood and The Terror but I agree with PA that they do tend to drag on…

    What I like about Collins is how well he transports you to the period in which his novels take place. The Terror and Drood both take place in the 19th century and when you are finished you will truly believe you know what it’s like to live in Victorian England or sail on a mid-19th century icebreaker. He is incredibly thorough with his descriptions but at the same time you won’t feel bogged down with useless details. I was completely engaged the entire time however I have an affection for Victorian England anyway and like PA said, the story continues on perhaps longer than it needs to.

    • This reply was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by Avatar photonittany ram.
    #22380
    PA Ram
    Participant

    You may like his new book, Nittany. I plan to order it this weekend:

    The Fifth Heart

    http://www.amazon.com/Fifth-Heart-Dan-Simmons/dp/031619882X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1428549845&sr=8-1&keywords=the+fifth+heart

    Sherlock Holmes and Henry James solving a mystery.

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

    #22391
    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator

    You may like his new book, Nittany. I plan to order it this weekend:

    The Fifth Heart

    http://www.amazon.com/Fifth-Heart-Dan-Simmons/dp/031619882X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1428549845&sr=8-1&keywords=the+fifth+heart

    Sherlock Holmes and Henry James solving a mystery.

    That sounds great. I have the complete set of Sherlock Holmes books on Kindle, so yeah I’m a fan.

    #27568
    PA Ram
    Participant

    Tracking down this thread just made me realize how long it’s been since I finished a book. That’s what happens when you get five going at once.

    So I did FINALLY finish “The Fifth Heart” by Dan Simmons.

    http://www.amazon.com/The-Fifth-Heart-Dan-Simmons/dp/031619882X

    It was a chore. There were times I faded out–reading words like a zombie, flicking my eyes over the pages–absorbing nothing. I lost the plot or didn’t really care after awhile. Basically, the book is a collection of research that Simmons had left over from some other novels and he never met a piece of research he didn’t put into a novel so he threw it together here with the result being an odd story that involves characters who may not even be real. There are times that Simmons speaks directly to the reader about the characters and the effect is that it’s very difficult to accept these characters in any sort of way.

    The plot with Sherlock Holmes wondering whether he is real or just a fictional character should have been better but it plays more like the film , “The Seven Percent Solution”, dispelling myths created by Dr. Watson(a similar plot is in the new film , “Mr. Holmes” based on “A Trick of the Mind”.

    Simmons even brings in a character from an earlier novel called “Black Hills” for no apparent reason. Well–there’s a reason, I guess but it’s dumb.

    The so-called plot involves Holmes using author Henry James as a sort of fill-in Watson, to uncover the mystery of Clover Adams death. Was it REALLY a suicide? But there’s fifteen other plotlines including the attempted assassination of Grover Cleveland at the world’s fair. There are numerous historical figures hopping back and forth from Teddy Roosevelt to Mark Twain who are there…well, just because Simmons wanted them there.

    There are always moments of his writing that are brilliant and compelling. There are always interesting things to learn: I did not know that Henry Rathbone, the major who was with Lincoln when he was shot and who failed to stop Booth, eventually killed his wife, attacked his kids and was sent to a mental hospital.

    But there’s too much here and too much nothing.

    And I thought it was his worst novel to date.

    The man needs to learn when to stop a novel and that every piece of research does not have to be wedged into a plot for pages on end.

    Overall, disappointing.

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

    #27574
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    But there’s too much here and too much nothing.

    And I thought it was his worst novel to date.

    The man needs to learn when to stop a novel and that every piece of research does not have to be wedged into a plot for pages on end.

    Overall, disappointing.

    I read Simmon’s “Fires of Eden” last week. Just wanted something
    breezy. Junk-foody. It was pretty empty. Definitely the worst thing I’ve
    read by Simmons.

    It was set in Hawaii and involved Giant talking pigs,
    and a half-shark-half-man demigod, and a Volcano goddess, and
    some Japanese billionaires who wanted to buy a resort and turn
    it into a golf-utopia. Oh, and a ghost-hunting, naked, Mark Twain is one of the
    main characters. Yes.

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    #27583
    PA Ram
    Participant

    It was set in Hawaii and involved Giant talking pigs,
    and a half-shark-half-man demigod, and a Volcano goddess, and
    some Japanese billionaires who wanted to buy a resort and turn
    it into a golf-utopia. Oh, and a ghost-hunting, naked, Mark Twain is one of the
    main characters. Yes.

    That sounds awful.

    I may try ” The Abominable” at some point but I need a break from him right now.

    I’m still reading “Divide” by Matt Taibbi, “Flashpoints” by George Friedman, “The Emperor of all Maladies” by Siddhartha Mukherjee(I’ve been working through that well over a year and I’m about halfway through it) and a paperback novel called “Influx” by Danial Suarez(labeled the Crichton of his time according to the book blurb). Hopefully I won’t start anything new until I finish these. I should set my limit at five at a time–period. I always have a hard time quitting a book when I should. I just keep going most of the time. So they can add up when I get bored.

    Not that all of these are boring. “Divide” is fantastic, actually.

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

    #27588
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    It was set in Hawaii and involved Giant talking pigs,
    and a half-shark-half-man demigod, and a Volcano goddess, and
    some Japanese billionaires who wanted to buy a resort and turn
    it into a golf-utopia. Oh, and a ghost-hunting, naked, Mark Twain is one of the
    main characters. Yes.

    That sounds awful.

    I may try ” The Abominable” at some point but I need a break from him right now.

    I’m still reading “Divide” by Matt Taibbi, “Flashpoints” by George Friedman, “The Emperor of all Maladies” by Siddhartha Mukherjee(I’ve been working through that well over a year and I’m about halfway through it) and a paperback novel called “Influx” by Danial Suarez(labeled the Crichton of his time according to the book blurb). Hopefully I won’t start anything new until I finish these. I should set my limit at five at a time–period. I always have a hard time quitting a book when I should. I just keep going most of the time. So they can add up when I get bored.

    Not that all of these are boring. “Divide” is fantastic, actually.

    Well yeah doesnt surprise me that Taibbi’s book is great.

    The best book I’ve read this year (and I’m still reading it) is “Democracy’s Prisoner”.
    Its a biography of Eugene V Debbs. Debbs was a tall, charismatic Socialist back in the World War I era.
    He ran for President from a Jail cell in Moundsville WV. President Woodrow Wilson tossed him in prison,
    for speaking out against Wilson’s War. Back then numerous Socialists were jailed for being anti-war. Some were lynched. Many were beaten in police-riots and riots lead by the American Legion and American soldiers and rightwing vigilantes.

    Helen Keller was a socialist and was one of his biggest supporters, along with Upton Sinclair, btw.

    The book is well-written. Its not a leftist screed by any means. Just lays out the facts, nicely.

    Definitely my favorite book of the last few years.

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    http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Dissent/Democracy%27sPrisoner_Debs.html

    a book review
    Democracy’s Prisoner
    Eugene V. Debs, the Great War, and the Right to Dissent
    by Ernest Freeberg
    a book review by Peter Richardson
    http://www.latimes.com/fe, June 15, 2008

    It all sounds so familiar: a foreign war, an unpopular president, high-minded vows to spread democracy abroad and a dubious law to restrict liberties at home. Add to that scenario vast inequalities in wealth, high immigration rates, scant regard for working families and festering resentment about the ravages of global capital. The conclusion seems inescapable: the first decades of the 20th century sound weirdly like the present.

    But the differences are also notable. Before World War I, a radical journal could reach 700,000 American households, and socialism was what William James might call “a live hypothesis.” The impassioned speeches of labor organizer, Socialist leader and five-time presidential candidate Eugene V. Debs were nothing short of evangelical in tone and effect. (He once called socialism “merely Christianity in action.”) Debs inspired groups large and small, and his remarkable charisma is what most concerned the powers that were. For the historical parallel to hold, we must imagine a third-party presidential candidate today who could receive 1 million votes without leaving his prison cell — and a roaring ovation from his fellow inmates when he finally did.

    According to historian Ernest Freeberg, it was precisely Debs’ virtuosity that forced America to grapple with the limits of dissent. In 1918, Debs was convicted under the recently minted Espionage Act for questioning America’s entry into World War I; before that, free speech protections were more a matter of custom, easily dispensed with during wartime, than of high legal principle. But his 10-year sentence raised 1st Amendment issues with unprecedented force. Sixty-three years old and in poor health, Debs faced the prospect of dying in prison. His drama played out against a backdrop of revolutionary violence both here and abroad: While he was serving his sentence, a bomb planted by anarchists ripped through a busy Wall Street intersection, killing more than 30 people and injuring 200.

    Freeberg shows that in the end it was Debs’ popularity, not a knockdown legal argument, that compelled politicians, the mainstream media and eventually federal judges to reconsider the government’s power to jail dissidents. The legal justifications came later, after Debs walked out of an Atlanta prison and caught a train to meet his unlikely Republican pardoner, President Warren G. Harding. Ailing, distracted by foreign affairs and stung by criticism from progressives and conservatives alike for his policy failures, Democrat Woodrow Wilson had refused to pardon Debs despite rising public pressure to do so after the war. When it seemed safe, his successor made the call, shrewdly connecting it to his pledge to return the nation to normalcy.

    Throughout this time, many civic groups and public officials defended the Espionage Act. One leader of the American Defense Society declared, “Those who are not for us, must be against us.” A congressman advised: “People should go ahead and obey the law, keep their mouths shut, and let the government run the war.” Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. dismissed criticism of the court’s unanimous rulingagainst Debs as “a lot of jaw about free speech.” But Holmes reconsidered his position and later offered his “clear and present danger” test to adjudicate such cases. By that standard, Debs never would have been convicted.

    Freeberg’s narrative unfolds at a stately pace. He patiently introduces the main characters and many minor ones. Debs’ main advocate, Lucy Robins, leaves her vegetarian restaurant in San Francisco to take up the fight. She receives strong backstage support from Debs’ labor rival, the AFL’s Samuel Gompers, and equally strong resistance from her more radical husband. Upton Sinclair weighs in, overconfident in his ability to reason with Wilson. We also hear from John Reed, Helen Keller, Clarence Darrow and U.S. Postmaster General Will Hays, who would later lay down the law for the Hollywood studios. (His nemesis, Mae West, appears briefly to lobby Harding for Debs’ release.) Wilson’s attorney general, A. Mitchell Palmer, launches raids on radical groups and thereby scotches his political future. But Palmer’s loss is J. Edgar Hoover’s gain; the young bureaucrat fills his files with the names of subversives — and eventually carries the imprint of those years into the Nixon era.

    The middle section of the book, which describes the various pressures and counter-pressures brought to bear on the amnesty question, slows to a crawl. Debs moves through two prisons and three wardens, whom he invariably impresses with his integrity and affability. His freedom looms on the horizon like a mirage as two administrations ponder the politics of his release. One delegation after another makes its pitch in Washington, and the decision-makers dispense blandishments until the battle for popular opinion is all but settled. Freeberg’s reader languishes along with Debs, waiting for some definitive outcome.
    When it finally arrives, the relief is palpable. Some readers may be moved, as I was, by the photograph of a black-suited Debs standing on the road outside the penitentiary. With his back to the camera and black hat raised high in his right hand, Debs acknowledges the ovation of his fellow inmates. For American radical history, this is Lou Gehrig’s farewell at Yankee Stadium. Debs wasn’t the victim of a bad break; he was the luckiest man on the face of the Earth.
    Debs served less than three years, but he returned to a different world. He had always mediated the tension between his party’s two major factions, the democratic Socialists and the communists, but the party splintered while he was serving his sentence. After his release in 1921, he sided with the democrats, whose numbers were dwindling, partly because many of the party’s causes — including women’s suffrage, food and drug laws, a minimum wage and a ban on child labor — had become mainstream issues.

    Moreover, Wilson’s war had squandered much of the nation’s idealism. As Freeberg notes, “The administration had lied about the causes and likely consequences of the war, big business had fattened itself while families sacrificed, and much of the patriotic fervor that gripped the country in the war years had only been froth churned by the government’s propaganda machine.” Fortunately, this would never happen again.

    Soon after his release, Debs had seen enough of Lenin’s methods to deplore them. When he shared his concern with radical journalist Lincoln Steffens, he received a Rumsfeld-esque reply that “some things happen that we don’t expect.” Debs broke with the Bolsheviks, but despite strenuous efforts by Lucy Robins, he never healed the breach with Gompers before dying in 1926. Many of Debs’ comrades drifted off into other pursuits, including mainstream journalism, real estate sales and the development of solar greenhouses in Vermont. Ironically, Clyde Miller, an Ohio journalist and the man most responsible for Debs’ conviction, lobbied Harding to pardon him, helped found an institute for propaganda analysis and was later grilled by the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

    If history is what the present wants to know about the past, “Democracy’s Prisoner” is teeming with lessons. But above all, it’s the story of one extraordinary man’s showdown with the establishment — and how that confrontation turned into a complex political struggle whose outcome was up for grabs. Carefully researched and expertly told, Debs’ story also brings a fascinating era into sharp, vivid focus.

    Peter Richardson is the author of “American Prophet: The Life and Work of Carey McWilliams.” His book on the history and influence of Ramparts magazine will be published next year.

    • This reply was modified 9 years, 4 months ago by Avatar photowv.
    #27590
    PA Ram
    Participant

    Sounds good, wv.

    Yeah–I think you’d really like “Divide”. It’s really eye opening in how the justice system works in different ways for different people. How delaying trials as a practice, can keep people in jail longer than their sentence would have been, how deals are made where people plead guilty to things they aren’t really guilty of and then as their record grows it becomes more difficult each time they are brought in–because as far as the law is concerned–they have a big record when a guy was just trying to make the best deal he could in a situation because bail is often set too high for lower income people to meet. Lousy options.

    And the other part of the deal is about Wall Street and the banks and how THAT justice system works–or doesn’t really.

    Justice is arbitrary–not some objective sacred thing that we’ve been led to believe.

    http://www.amazon.com/The-Divide-American-Injustice-Wealth/dp/0812983637

    Good customer review:

    Whatever your viewpoint, this book likely will change it.
    By Steven G Duff on April 20, 2014
    Format: Hardcover Verified Purchase
    You could bookend this with Christa Freeland’s “Plutocrats.” But where that recounts a lot of dry history and statistics interspersed with its revealing interviews, Taibbi isn’t afraid to roll up his sleeves and go to the story. This is a book written with a wry sense of the absurd situations it details. Corruption at both the top and the bottom of our society. But to very, very different ends.

    Remember: this is the guy that went to the Florida “rocket docket” court, recording how thousands of people were stripped of their homes under the flimsiest pretexts, often with outright fabricated evidence. In “Divide” he goes again where the stories are: to Bed-Sty, the outer NYC boroughs, and the courts. And documents how miserably the system treats the disadvantaged. What you think you know from “Law And Order”, believe it: you don’t. Kafka himself couldn’t improve on some of this. At one point Taibbi refers to all this as a “descent into madness.” And after reading it, it’s hard to argue with that.

    The “Divide” of course is cash. But this is no screed against “the rich.” If that’s what you think you’ve not read the book, or completely missed the point. To wit: if you commit a massive, white-collar crime, but you’ve got enough (i.e. near-infinite) cash, you’re now too much trouble and risk to even indict, let alone prosecute. And if — like me – you’ve wondered why none of the people who committed these global frauds on a massive scale have ever been prosecuted for any of it, this book gives you a detailed, compelling, and depressing answer.

    Taibbi points out most of us will never see any of this. Out of sight, out of mind. The poor are segregated away. And the corrupt wealthy never have to interact with any of the people who are so profoundly impacted by their frauds. These are the guys who ripped off us off, burned down our 401Ks, rigged Libor rates to line their own pockets with our mortgages. And then moved on to other cushy positions, presumably doing much the same.

    One review here (by someone who claims to have read all of 3 pages) complains about Taibbi’s assertion of “a miserable few hundred bucks” collected by welfare cheats in San Diego. But let’s be clear: Taibbi never suggests these people should be let off. But he does spend considerable ink contemplating for example, about the corrupt execs at institutions like HSBC. Execs who brazenly laundered money for the Iranians and the Sinaloa cartel. (They actually opened a special teller window to fit the boxes of cash that were brought in!) About how these guys got off scot-free with a fine paid by HSBC. And never even saw the inside of a courtroom. While people who buy those street dime bags that HSBC so thoughtfully enabled can spend years, or a lifetime, in prison. Lose their kids. Their right to vote. And then even if they do get out can’t get a job. “A billion dollars or a billion days.” Does that seem like “equal justice for all?” Not to me. Not to Taibbi. And it won’t to you after you read this.

    Taibbi suggests a larger, deeper, and more sinister subtext. About what we claim to profess as a nation: due process, equal justice, simple fairness. Money and power have always had their sway of course. But the inescapable takeaway from this is that we’ve simply given up on these ideals; they’re now just too much trouble. As a nation we no longer give a damn. That’s the real divide. And the real outrage.

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

    #27591
    PA Ram
    Participant

    By the way–I didn’t mean the book is going to be eye opening for you–I know you live it and see what most of us don’t. I’m sure it’s all too familiar to what you see.

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

    #27596
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Sounds good, wv.

    Yeah–I think you’d really like “Divide”. It’s really eye opening in how the justice system works in different ways for different people. How delaying trials as a practice, can keep people in jail longer than their sentence would have been, how deals are made where people plead guilty to things they aren’t really guilty of and then as their record grows it becomes more difficult each time they are brought in–because as far as the law is concerned–they have a big record when a guy was just trying to make the best deal he could in a situation because bail is often set too high for lower income people to meet. Lousy options.

    And the other part of the deal is about Wall Street and the banks and how THAT justice system works–or doesn’t really.

    Justice is arbitrary–not some objective sacred thing that we’ve been led to believe.

    http://www.amazon.com/The-Divide-American-Injustice-Wealth/dp/0812983637

    Good customer review:

    Whatever your viewpoint, this book likely will change it.
    By Steven G Duff on April 20, 2014
    Format: Hardcover Verified Purchase
    You could bookend this with Christa Freeland’s “Plutocrats.” But where that recounts a lot of dry history and statistics interspersed with its revealing interviews, Taibbi isn’t afraid to roll up his sleeves and go to the story. This is a book written with a wry sense of the absurd situations it details. Corruption at both the top and the bottom of our society. But to very, very different ends.

    Remember: this is the guy that went to the Florida “rocket docket” court, recording how thousands of people were stripped of their homes under the flimsiest pretexts, often with outright fabricated evidence. In “Divide” he goes again where the stories are: to Bed-Sty, the outer NYC boroughs, and the courts. And documents how miserably the system treats the disadvantaged. What you think you know from “Law And Order”, believe it: you don’t. Kafka himself couldn’t improve on some of this. At one point Taibbi refers to all this as a “descent into madness.” And after reading it, it’s hard to argue with that.

    The “Divide” of course is cash. But this is no screed against “the rich.” If that’s what you think you’ve not read the book, or completely missed the point. To wit: if you commit a massive, white-collar crime, but you’ve got enough (i.e. near-infinite) cash, you’re now too much trouble and risk to even indict, let alone prosecute. And if — like me – you’ve wondered why none of the people who committed these global frauds on a massive scale have ever been prosecuted for any of it, this book gives you a detailed, compelling, and depressing answer.

    Taibbi points out most of us will never see any of this. Out of sight, out of mind. The poor are segregated away. And the corrupt wealthy never have to interact with any of the people who are so profoundly impacted by their frauds. These are the guys who ripped off us off, burned down our 401Ks, rigged Libor rates to line their own pockets with our mortgages. And then moved on to other cushy positions, presumably doing much the same.

    One review here (by someone who claims to have read all of 3 pages) complains about Taibbi’s assertion of “a miserable few hundred bucks” collected by welfare cheats in San Diego. But let’s be clear: Taibbi never suggests these people should be let off. But he does spend considerable ink contemplating for example, about the corrupt execs at institutions like HSBC. Execs who brazenly laundered money for the Iranians and the Sinaloa cartel. (They actually opened a special teller window to fit the boxes of cash that were brought in!) About how these guys got off scot-free with a fine paid by HSBC. And never even saw the inside of a courtroom. While people who buy those street dime bags that HSBC so thoughtfully enabled can spend years, or a lifetime, in prison. Lose their kids. Their right to vote. And then even if they do get out can’t get a job. “A billion dollars or a billion days.” Does that seem like “equal justice for all?” Not to me. Not to Taibbi. And it won’t to you after you read this.

    Taibbi suggests a larger, deeper, and more sinister subtext. About what we claim to profess as a nation: due process, equal justice, simple fairness. Money and power have always had their sway of course. But the inescapable takeaway from this is that we’ve simply given up on these ideals; they’re now just too much trouble. As a nation we no longer give a damn. That’s the real divide. And the real outrage.

    I talked to a guy in jail the other day. He was
    denied a lawyer. Court wont appoint him a public-defender.
    Why?
    Because the crime he committed carries no jail sentence.
    He wrote some worthless checks. Worthless check charges
    only carry a FINE but no jail time.
    The law in WV sez, you are only entitled to a court-appointed lawyer
    if the crime you are charged with — carries a possible JAIL sentence.

    So…he’s in jail because he cant MAKE BAIL — but the charge itself
    carries no JAIL sentence — so…he cant get a Lawyer, to help him
    …get…out of jail.

    I could go on 🙂

    Its a wonderful system for poor people. The wonderfulness
    never ends.

    w
    v

    #27597
    PA Ram
    Participant

    I talked to a guy in jail the other day. He was
    denied a lawyer. Court wont appoint him a public-defender.
    Why?
    Because the crime he committed carries no jail sentence.
    He wrote some worthless checks. Worthless check charges
    only carry a FINE but no jail time.
    The law in WV sez, you are only entitled to a court-appointed lawyer
    if the crime you are charged with — carries a possible JAIL sentence.

    So…he’s in jail because he cant MAKE BAIL — but the charge itself
    carries no JAIL sentence — so…he cant get a Lawyer, to help him
    …get…out of jail.

    I could go on 🙂

    It’s insane.

    I caught bit of “…And Justice For All” last night—the old Al Pacino film. That also touches on the insanity of the system Good film.

    I can’t imagine your level of frustration having to deal with it all the time. Maybe you just get numb after awhile–I don’t know. All you can do is do whatever little good you can do in this bizarre system. I have to believe when you get victories it feels pretty good, knowing what you’re up against.

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

    #27599
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    I talked to a guy in jail the other day. He was
    denied a lawyer. Court wont appoint him a public-defender.
    Why?
    Because the crime he committed carries no jail sentence.
    He wrote some worthless checks. Worthless check charges
    only carry a FINE but no jail time.
    The law in WV sez, you are only entitled to a court-appointed lawyer
    if the crime you are charged with — carries a possible JAIL sentence.

    So…he’s in jail because he cant MAKE BAIL — but the charge itself
    carries no JAIL sentence — so…he cant get a Lawyer, to help him
    …get…out of jail.

    I could go on :)

    It’s insane.

    I caught bit of “…And Justice For All” last night—the old Al Pacino film. That also touches on the insanity of the system Good film.

    I can’t imagine your level of frustration having to deal with it all the time. Maybe you just get numb after awhile–I don’t know. All you can do is do whatever little good you can do in this bizarre system. I have to believe when you get victories it feels pretty good, knowing what you’re up against.

    Nah, it doesn’t get to me, Pa. Its not just
    the ‘criminal justice system’ — its the same
    story in all the corporotacracy’s “sub-systems.”
    Health care, Education, Media,
    Legal System…etc, etc, etc — same story: crush the poor.

    Meanwhile, the poor continue to vote for
    duplicats and replicants.

    Ah well.

    w
    v

    “Rise like Lions after slumber
    In unvanquishable number —
    Shake your chains to earth like dew
    Which in sleep had fallen on you —
    Ye are many — they are few.”

    Percy Bysshe Shelley
    — from his poem “The Mask of Anarchy”:

    “Our picture of the world is provided by those that profit from our ignorance.”
    Gavin Gee

    • This reply was modified 9 years, 4 months ago by Avatar photowv.
    #27621
    Avatar photocanadaram
    Participant

    Speaking of the justice system, I read Missoula: Rape and the Justice System in a Small Town by Jon Krakauer. I think that I’ve read most of Krakauer’s books. They always come across as being so well researched. However, his targets aren’t always given a chance to defend themselves. Anyway, as always Krakauer had me engrossed throughout. As the title implies it is not a plesent book, but it opened my eyes in many ways.

    Here’s a link to a brief article that covers Krakauer’s visit to Missoula to give critics an opportunity to confront him.

    http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/author-faces-heckler-at-forum-about-book-on-missoula-rapes/

    #27629
    PA Ram
    Participant

    Speaking of the justice system, I read Missoula: Rape and the Justice System in a Small Town by Jon Krakauer. I think that I’ve read most of Krakauer’s books. They always come across as being so well researched. However, his targets aren’t always given a chance to defend themselves. Anyway, as always Krakauer had me engrossed throughout. As the title implies it is not a plesent book, but it opened my eyes in many ways.

    I should read more of his books. I loved “Into Thin Air.” He really brought you to that mountain and those horrible events. It’s the closest I’ll get to experiencing anything like that. Even if I had the money and time to try it, I wouldn’t.

    The book was fantastic and memorable.

    • This reply was modified 9 years, 4 months ago by PA Ram.

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

    #27633
    Avatar photocanadaram
    Participant

    should read more of his books. I loved “Into Thin Air.” He really brought you to that mountain and those horrible events. It’s the closest I’ll get to experiencing anything like that. Even if I had the money and time to try it, I wouldn’t.

    I was blown away by “Into Thin Air.” Like you, I have zero interest in trying climbing. I didn’t even think that reading about it would be all that interesting. However, after reading ITA I read every climbing book I could find. I also made a point of picking up a new Krakauer books whenever I saw one. His topics have been wide ranging, from Pat Tillman to the history of Mormonism. For me each book has been difficult to put down.

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